Mixed feelings about WASPI victory

[Fauxflowersnoflowers]

Early 40s here, so this doesn't as such directly affect me, but I've been intrigued by the story about the WASPI campaign and done a bit of reading around it and I'm still confused.

The changes apparently were in the public sphere since as early as 1995 and could have been known about. Many women were aware and did take financial steps to address the changes. The current case seems to centre around whether they should have been personally informed, not was the change fair.

WASPI just said on Women's Hour that they don't object to the equalisation of the pension age, but then callers were objecting to having to work longer and not getting a good retirement, so the two arguments seem to contradiction each other

Also, it seems misunderstood that a compensation payment would be a full reinbursement of the "lost" pension, from my reading it's more likely to be a fixed amount to recognise the fact they should have received a letter. Although again, it appears many did, just not everyone, so who gets the compensation? All of them or just some?

I suppose the other question is how do we pay this? Public services are already stretched badly, childcare costs are crippling and there is a bit of a worry for me that the funds to pay this are going to come out of other areas that will just make the loves of younger women harder and push their pension ages even further back, maybe into their 70s.

Feel really conflicted about it. On one hand kudos to the women for getting this far, but in the other it feels like a really clear example of the importance of properly understanding your own finances and educating yourself about your pension planning.

So all those criticising - let me ask you a question. If you were among the waspi women, and were offered compensation, would you refuse it ? Would you give it back ? Donate it to charity ? Or is it not the money that irks you, but the fact that a group of women actively campaigned against a perceived injustice and had the temerity to win ?

@Sharptonguedwoman

"I can answer that. I'd done 37 years in full time, full on Secondary school teaching and was deeply tired, unable to give my best to yet another curriculum change. Age had made a disability worse and I was unable to do my job as it needed to be done. Sufficient notice and I might have retrained into a different subject but I was already 60. Imagine an infant school teacher of 67?

I knew I needed to work a bit after retirement, so I did. Then Covid, so screwed."

The teachers pension pays out at 60 and after 37 years of teaching it would be a strong teachers pension.

So why would you still need to be teaching at 67, unless of course it is out of choice.

@Rosscameasdoody in answer to your question - yes if I was in that group and was offered the money I'd take it. Of course I would. What I wouldn't have done would be bang on about how unfair things were for me me me when EVERYONE has had their pension age increase. And increased by a lot more for younger people. And men of the same age had the same timeframe for their pension age change notification. Pure entitlement.

I agree with you completely but ask yourself why younger generations feel like this… maybe it’s because the older generations stood by and watched while governments took away stuff for young people for example, fees for HE, the two child cap on child benefits I could go on.

This has resulted in a generational divide which politicians love to exploit

@Rosscameasdoody

"So all those criticising - let me ask you a question. If you were among the waspi women, and were offered compensation, would you refuse it ? Would you give it back ? Donate it to charity ? Or is it not the money that irks you, but the fact that a group of women actively campaigned against a perceived injustice and had the temerity to win ?"

I can easily answer that - most individuals are selfish, you can see that at election time when most voters vote for what will benefit them individually the most rather than what will benefit society the most.

So yes I think that of those criticising, if they were among the WASPI women and there was money being handed out then yes they would take and keep it.

But equally I think that if you owned a PPE business (or just claimed to) and the Govt offered you a £200 million contract to deliver stuff that you might not be able to. Then yes I think the majority of women would also take the money and keep it.

But that doesn't make it morally right.

Legally Baroness Mone didn't do anything wrong but I still don't think it was a good use of taxpayers money. Legally the WASPI women may be in the right but I still don't think compensation would be a good use of taxpayers money.

It really is that simple.

And let's be honest a group of women actively campaigned in the hope of getting a payout not because they were some kind of civil rights freedom fighters like Emily Pankhurst.

Maybe keep up to date with the regulations of the teachers pensions scheme. The current normal pensions age is linked to the state pension age. So guess what, as SPA continues to increase so will the NPA. And this applies to most public sector schemes.

What makes you believe all the waspi women/ women of my generation ‘stood by and watched while governments took away stuff …..’
many if us never gave up,our campaigning spirit. The two child cap was opposed by everyone I know, including our Labour MP
solidarity ✌️

There seem to be some double standards on this thread. Those whose 'paucity' mindset has been triggered by the news coverage, claiming that WASPI's should just stay in work longer, well then you should by applying that logic to your own retirement age, even if it's 80. Afterall, you will be still be earning more than a pension wouldn't you?

So many comments also that these women should have planned effectively. But doesn't financial literacy depend on so many variables? I mean, does anyone learn this at school? What if you don't have parents who are financially literate? Or maybe you lack confidence, or skills navigating systems? How do you find a financial advisor, particuarly one you can trust? Or maybe you are run ragged working, bringing up a family, just getting through every day.

This thread is a great example of how elites protect their advantages by pitting everyone outside of their circle against each other. They generate and tap into people's primal fears that someone else is going to 'take' all the resources. A bit like the immigrant narrative. But who is really hoarding all the wealth in this country while we are busy attacking each other and looking the other way? Jeez they are soooo good at what they do, enabled by the media (they own and direct) and the propaganda it churns out to keep us angry and distracted.

How about old and young, men and women come together and demand a society fit for ALL it's members?

As an older woman I was very against fees for HE, apart from anything else I had 4 kids at university or going to go to university so it cost me as I helped to support them. I don't suppose I'm the only older woman who was affected by that change alongside our children.

Again with childbenefit I have GC who lose out and I didn't support that. I didn't vote for any of it.

I do think the government love to exploit generational issues, divide and conquer is a well used tactic of British governments.

Yes the teachers pension scheme like other public sector pensions are certainly not what they to be and this is probably another reason younger generations are feeling resentful.

I completely support these 1950’s women and hope they get an apology and compensation but I understand why many aren’t happy- it’s the feeling a generational disparity.

It's not entitlement to object to a 2 year notice of change.
No one seems to get this

I fall into the WASPI category and I feel that I was given plenty of notice about the gradual rise in pension age. The only group who were treated unfairly IMO is women born in 1954 ( not me) who had an unexpected jump in retirement age. I don’t think it’s appropriate for compensation to be paid, especially in the current financial climate. I am fed up though of reading generalisations about boomers who have all had cushy lives and not needed to work based on a few well off families people happen to know. Some things were easier for the WASPI generation of women, some things were much more difficult ( child care, the way the benefits system worked, placing the man at the head of the family etc.). I’m very aware of the current cost of living crisis affecting young families.

Don’t worry, there soon won’t be infant teachers to go around, and I can’t imagine many with the energy to keep going to 71.

Absolutely we need to unite against this, it’s disgusting how they exploit people like this. Let’s hope we see some actual change with the next government whenever that comes

"The level of absolute poverty among pensioners barely changed on the year and remains at one of the lowest levels on record.
But the number of children and of working-age adults in poverty each rose by about 300,000 people.
In these figures, a quarter of children were in absolute poverty.
The two percentage point rise in the rate of child poverty is the highest since at least the mid 1990s."

That's an extract from a news article on the BBC this morning.
Still think it's a good use of money to pay compensation to everyone born in the 50s for having their pension age changed? When EVERYONE has had the same happen to them?
I don't. I'd much rather the money was spent helping families with young kids thanks.

Older people need to stop voting conservative then please. Otherwise there won't be a "next government".

Being wrongly detained, denied legal rights and being deported is hardly the same as having your pension age equalised with men and all subsequent generations of women.

Equating the two is an insult to the Windrush generation and only goes to demonstrate how deep the WASPI sense of entitlement goes!

And if that was the only thing the WASPI women were complaining about I’d have far more sympathy. I do have sympathy for the people worst affected by the 2011 changes.

i don’t have any sympathy for the women who didn’t know the pension was increasing from 60 following the 1995 changes. They did have plenty of time, and could have found out.

It was 2 years, not 2 weeks ffs…

Why should I have to pay higher taxes because women didn’t check when their pension age was? All over the news and passed into law. You’ve not “lost” thousands because pensions don’t work like that. You aren’t putting into a pot to claim, your pension is paid by existing taxation.

Re the Windrush compensation. When Barack Obama stood against Hilary Clinton for President I knew he would win because Americans hate female people more than they hate black people. Looks like the same is true here now.

I worked till 69 so the idea of a later retirement age, if you are fit and well, doesn't cause me any issues. The bit I find unfair was how little notice there was of the 2nd change for many women, so at a time they were budgeting for the first change they got the 2nd change and little time to plan for it. As I say I was working in a well paid job I enjoyed so for me it isn't personal it is feeling sorry for the women who did suffer.

I had a bit of a double whammy as I still had two at university when the 2nd change came in and that probably happened to many others so again I was able to do that but it doesn't mean I can't sympathise with people who really struggled.

Younger people might not like retiring at 66 or 68 but they have got years to plan for it.

This is what I’m talking about exploiting generational differences into order to take money away from people.. there are more differences in terms of poverty etc within generations as there are between I’m sure. Also interesting how governments can find money for their mates… maybe if we got back some of that stolen money for faulty PPE we could afford to compensate people without any problems!

Ah well the Ombudsman doesn't agree with you.

Well said. 👏