Mixed feelings about WASPI victory

[Fauxflowersnoflowers]

Early 40s here, so this doesn't as such directly affect me, but I've been intrigued by the story about the WASPI campaign and done a bit of reading around it and I'm still confused.

The changes apparently were in the public sphere since as early as 1995 and could have been known about. Many women were aware and did take financial steps to address the changes. The current case seems to centre around whether they should have been personally informed, not was the change fair.

WASPI just said on Women's Hour that they don't object to the equalisation of the pension age, but then callers were objecting to having to work longer and not getting a good retirement, so the two arguments seem to contradiction each other

Also, it seems misunderstood that a compensation payment would be a full reinbursement of the "lost" pension, from my reading it's more likely to be a fixed amount to recognise the fact they should have received a letter. Although again, it appears many did, just not everyone, so who gets the compensation? All of them or just some?

I suppose the other question is how do we pay this? Public services are already stretched badly, childcare costs are crippling and there is a bit of a worry for me that the funds to pay this are going to come out of other areas that will just make the loves of younger women harder and push their pension ages even further back, maybe into their 70s.

Feel really conflicted about it. On one hand kudos to the women for getting this far, but in the other it feels like a really clear example of the importance of properly understanding your own finances and educating yourself about your pension planning.

Nobody’s currently looking at a retirement age of 71.

Well said. I remember in about 1989 me and a female colleague going to see our boss to ask why all the women had 2 percent less than the men in the annual pay round. ‘Because you’re all going to go off and have babies,’ he said. I can’t remember if it was actually illegal to discriminate by then but we were too scared of being sacked to take it any further.

Caring as a career is a choice and attracts pay. Most of the time caring for disabled family members is neither, and there’s no clocking off time.

Well actually I believe we should (I fall into that category) have been written too - I definitely have not had a letter about. But it is different they still have time to write to us... I wait in hope I will get a letter but I very much doubt it.. There really is no excuse for not communicating more effectively!

They haven't written to the rest of us because it will change again soon... 71 then phase it out.

They are very fortunate then because this is not my experience during the 1990s and beyond and neither has this been the experience of my female friends either. The point is that just because you can cite examples of women having a choice to return to work does not mean that this is experienced by other women. And I think for those of us who care for disabled and/or elderly relatives, we have less freedom and choice about whether we can work or not and become more impoverished as a result.

@Ahugga if they were going to phase the state pension out, why has the government had a big campaign to try and get people to pay extra NI years if they do not have enough for the full state pension?

Have you got evidence that WASPI women were a) asked to support other causes and b) can you prove they were not interested in helping others.

Absolutely this; I think unless you've done round the clock caring, its hard to understand how little time a family carer has for themselves, let alone read the news and plan a pension.

Quite likely it's all so depressing especially as life expectancy is now falling. Significant numbers of people that do live into retirement are often physically struggling with various ailments too... making the option of working past retirement age problematic for many.

@Flowers4me I see. This is personal to you and somehow you feel attacked. I know you're defending the minority and yes, they should have a voice. However, of ALL the women I know, very few couldn't return. Some chose not to. Few like you say had circumstances that prohibited it. But many of the WASPIs could have worked after and kept working past 60...if they wanted to.

They need the taxes to fund current pensions... if you're already retired your probably safe. Anyone under ~45, good luck.

@MalvernValentine how old are you roughly?

Is it relevant? Nearly 40. Not that it matters a jot.

I am not feeling attacked but I am defending a minority group whose voice is not being properly heard on here. I think it is important to recognise that women are not a homogenous group and likely the WASPI women will not be either; that there will be individual/family contexts at play.

God, this and so much more ... being told the guy got the pay rise because he had a family to keep, or even because he would have a family to keep! Blatant sexism in recruitment. Banks asking for a male co-signatory, even though it was longer a legal requirement. In 19 bloody 98, our mortgage lender refused to talk to me about our joint mortgage 😡 It's a long slog ...

@MalvernValentine 40ish was the happiest time of my life so far. And a time when you look at people in their fifties and sixties and think from looking at them you feel physically and mentally the same as when you are 40. You don't.
And that is not even mentioning age discrimination which is real. I remember my father at 62 going for loads of interviews and he said so many times as soon as he walked in the door and saw how old he was, their faces fell.

I remember a pregnant colleague being told to schedule all her pre natal appointments for her day off and on the occasions she couldn’t reschedule she was told if she didn’t make up the time, her pay would be docked. Most women couldn’t imagine that happening now but it was routine back then. And don’t get me started on the disability discrimination that went on. I’m disabled and was once told by my boss that l wasn’t to leave work premises to do shopping during my unpaid lunch hour because the slow pace at which l walked meant that l may not be able to get back on time!!

@MalvernValentine It is not impossible to get a job when you are older, but it is not easy either. Even the government recognises this and has started running schemes to help older unemployed people.

What worries me is the classic divide and conquer here. Older people being pitted against younger, as milking the young "cash cows" rich and greedy boomers?

I moved to a 4 dy week because I could no longer cope with teaching full time and caring for my late husband. The result was I got less money but nearly the same amount of work - planning and grading the work for my 'day off' and catching up any problems on the Monday.

After a yr, I asked my HT for a 3 dy wk. He refused, so - reluctantly, I took a reduced pension at 58. (Yes, I'm lucky I could do that.) He jobsized my role down...I've been gone from the job nearly 6 yrs. I've had 6 successors, all women; all much younger than me, but they couldn't cope with it.

DH died two yrs after I retired. Finished up going back to teaching on supply part time to supplement my pension.

This morning, I was accosted by a group of 15 yr old girls who demanded that I let them into an area that they shouldn't be in. They were wearing labels on their forehead (I kid you not) which read "Number 1 Bitch". They then angrily demanded to know why I was using the pass-controlled lift instead of the stairs. I answered truthfully "I have mobility problems."

Don't think I'll manage to keep teaching until I'm 66 and one month and I can't see many folk lasting beyond that.

@Flowers4me likewise young women or just women people aren't homogeneous and I'm likewise representing a world view based on my own experience and honestly just responding to ridiculous claims made about younger women and their fabricated hatred of older women, because we dared talk about personal responsibility. Yes, I get it before you say. Not everyone can take responsibility for themselves or situations.

@MalvernValentine and that is not even taking into account those who left work early to care for grandchildren with the idea they would soon get the state pension. How easy is it to say sorry adult kids, I am off back to work. I know you cant afford childcare, but tough.

This is reminding me of when I started work in a bank in the 1980s. The sex discrimination and physical harassment was blatant and almost daily. We couldn't complain, noone took us seriously as we were women. Our manager used to openly say that he would encourage the young men to do further training but not us women - he'd say it was a waste of time as we'd just leave, get married and have babies. I hope my daughters never have to experience the discrimination and abuse that I had to endure as a young woman.

@MalvernValentine I do not think young women hate older women. I just think personal responsibility is the cry of the well off conservatives in life.
I prefer community responsibility. We all should contribute to the community as we can. I think personal responsibility is a neo libertarian selfish doctrine that is more about everyone for themselves, than a more community approach.