Mixed feelings about WASPI victory

[Fauxflowersnoflowers]

Early 40s here, so this doesn't as such directly affect me, but I've been intrigued by the story about the WASPI campaign and done a bit of reading around it and I'm still confused.

The changes apparently were in the public sphere since as early as 1995 and could have been known about. Many women were aware and did take financial steps to address the changes. The current case seems to centre around whether they should have been personally informed, not was the change fair.

WASPI just said on Women's Hour that they don't object to the equalisation of the pension age, but then callers were objecting to having to work longer and not getting a good retirement, so the two arguments seem to contradiction each other

Also, it seems misunderstood that a compensation payment would be a full reinbursement of the "lost" pension, from my reading it's more likely to be a fixed amount to recognise the fact they should have received a letter. Although again, it appears many did, just not everyone, so who gets the compensation? All of them or just some?

I suppose the other question is how do we pay this? Public services are already stretched badly, childcare costs are crippling and there is a bit of a worry for me that the funds to pay this are going to come out of other areas that will just make the loves of younger women harder and push their pension ages even further back, maybe into their 70s.

Feel really conflicted about it. On one hand kudos to the women for getting this far, but in the other it feels like a really clear example of the importance of properly understanding your own finances and educating yourself about your pension planning.

I hardly think it's helpful to label anything other than blind support as dislike.

My retirement year is 2056 according to the NI tracker and this is currently absolutely normal for everyone my age. I can guarantee you that my goal posts will move as well and if i dont save my own pension il be getting no state pension in 2056. Im pretty informed as im interested in the area but most of my friends dont have a clue, they too are badly informed. Ignorance is not an excuse in law, i dont see why that doesnt apply here.

Your grievance as far as i can see has been about being tired, a disability and not wanting to continue working. That is not what has been upheld by the appeal. You have not really sighted that your main injustice is not having been informed so it seems like your grievance is just that you didnt get to retire early although its not clear why, as you likely did retire, with your generous public sector pension.

I think saying something has always been that way so it will forever and ever is just a difficult position to garner much sympathy for. I understand why you would have wanted to retire early but not why you feel its your right.

Sincerely hope that you are now in a place where you can make the most of it and wish you the best.

Yes it really is every woman for herself for some of the posters on here isn’t it?
Happy to benefit from the rights fought for the women that came before them but begrudging them any justice.
Unable to grasp anything other than the financial impact they perceive will fall on them, never thinking that the next wrong may be committed against them.
Buying into every stereotype about their parents and grandparents having an easy life, while wilfully ignoring any evidence to the contrary.
Shameful .

I wonder if those begrudging any WASPI compensation are as begrudging of Windrush compensation?

Well, as a WASPI, it would be nice to think I’ll get some compensation, but I do understand the costs.

I didn’t hold out much hope, but as the newspapers and media have thrown their weight behind, in support, who knows?

It certainly has helped with other campaigns.

Of course we should be listening to younger women but we should also be listening to older women too. You may just find that there are shared issues across the generations. Childcare, flexible work, housing, freedom from violence and abuse, access to education and healthcare have been impacting women for decades. Despite this I still support the Ombudsman's report and I do not see this as women pulling the ladder up behind them at all. If we don't fight back against shoddy treatment then the government will continue to treat women with disrespect. We owe it to all women, and those that follow us, to fight against that. You say you've read every post and yet you maintain the argument that women have a personal responsibility for this so clearly you do not respect the Ombudsman's report and insist on blaming women. I have written about this before on this thread and I will not repeat myself here except to say that I work with vulnerable women and so understand how some women may not have been able to follow the changes brought in by the coalition government in 2011. If there is any blame to be had it should be aimed at the government for accelerating the process without any thought to the women involved.

I knew loads of working class people who went to university in the 80s. Obviously they were academic but it was much easier financially than it is now.

Don’t you see that your last paragraph discriminates against men not women!

For various reasons, the WASPI generation of baby boomers is generally regarded as the most prosperous in history, more so than any before or those since. The idea that you still feel aggrieved despite your fortune is disappointing, and the notion that you believe you should be able to retire at 60 on a full state pension when you have on average 27 years of life left (yes, life expectancy for a woman who has reached 60 is 87 and two years longer than for men) is just another facet of your generation’s entitlement!

Unable to grasp anything other than the financial impact they perceive will fall on them? So are we only allowed to grasp (and pay for) the financial impact on one very select group of women? Either it goes both ways or it's not a valid argument.

Few people under 60 buy newspapers or care about them, so of course they’ll be supporting their pensioner base.

Thank you! That poster is particularly aggressive and lacking in nuance.

I understand the issue. I have some sympathy that there should be some compensation in relation to the poor communication, of the order of magnitude that was originally highlighted, but many WASPI women believe they were “robbed” of their pension and are demanding that the compensation should be tens of thousands each!… and that it’s worse than the Post Office scandal!

My thoughts too; I don't recall this level of anger towards other awards of compensation.

You completely miss the point. Our contributions were the same as the men yet would be lost entirely if we died while at work.

Nowhere did I say I wanted to be able to retire at 60 on full state pension. I said I didn’t have enough time to make up for the change except carry on working.

Fortune? What are you on about.

It's not even slightly the same though. Why would the reaction be the same?

It wasn’t an argument

Exactly

This continued setting one generation so women against another seems to me to be an effective way of increasing division between generations. I’m ‘lucky’ to be old enough to have got my state pension at 60. I started work at 16 and retired (health grounds) at 62. When I married (foolishly but later escaped) at 18, older women in the office told me not to fall for paying the lower ‘married women’s stamp’. I always paid full and and worked with only 1 year off in 1972 when baby 1 arrived. No maternity leave. We were expected to resign - my manager didn’t want to lose me. Asked me to apply for my job back when I could, phoned me 6 months later to offer me my job, big salary and a car. No nurseries, no childminders and none of the grandparents would have supported me going back to work.

It’s important to remember the background to many of us 70’s feminists being active in attempting to find equality. We couldn’t get a mortgage. women’s work often still seen as ‘pin money’
fdwidw I think yiung women have it tougher now than we did. Cost of living, expectations on running all the domestic stuff, working and somehow keeping on top of endless messages from school about yet another thing to organise
but - all my friends are active in supporting adult children financially And child care

Yeah, Chris Mason on the news last night, said this was a massive thing. As big as the post office scandal and the contaminated blood products thing.

Meanwhile on MN……

Despite not being able to join pension schemes
Despite a lot of women that age staying at home as was accepted and not being able to build a pension.
Despite women of that age fighting for their sisters ( including younger ones)
Despite women of that age getting fired for getting pregnant
Despite women of that age fighting for acceptance in the work place

They are derided on here

And where's the support for compensation claims of the 3 million excluded from Covid support grants? Those who lost their life savings, their businesses, some lost their homes, a few lost their lives. All because of some illogical and unfair exclusions meaning they were excluded from the support schemes.

Did Waspi women's groups support them? Did the Waspi's support the postmasters?

We need a united front to object against these injustices done by top level government, and that means taking the time to understand and help those others affected, rather than selfishly just obsessing about how we alone were wronged!

Shouldn't the fact that people are happy to compensate for windrush but not so much for this tell you something?

One poster made the comparison with the post office. One. And the waspis know they are not going to get anything like tens of thousands. That’s been made very clear. Many women affected have died without seeing a penny of compensation. I suspect that by the time compensation is actually paid many more will have done so.

Absolutely Wombat.