Who is being unreasonable - it's a driving one (with diagram!)

[chickenfeathers]

Who is being unreasonable in this situation?

Car A (large, transit sized) indicated and turned left into a very narrow side road. There was a parked car half on the footpath on their side of the road, and a car waiting to pull out onto the busier main road. Car A is partially obscuring this drivers view trying to pull out due to where the parked car is (on a blind corner 🙄).

Car B (very small car) is almost level with the parked car. Nothing behind them. Car A waits for car B to reverse back but the driver doesn't. Car B then moves forward to behind the car waiting to pull out, despite car A gesturing for them to reverse back to allow them through easier.

Car A may have fitted through the gap, but it would have been very, very tight. Car B driver then shouts at car A driver they "would have got through" and "they need to learn to drive". A short heated exchange then occurs until car B is able to finally move forward.

So who was in the wrong here?

Car A - they should have tried to drive through the gap

Car B - they should have reversed to allow car A though with more room.

Car B couldn't go anywhere so was being a bellend in not trying to keep traffic flowing.

Car B needs to back the truck up!

Car a waits!

It would be easier and safer for car B to reverse though. If Car A reversed it would be reversing into a busy road. The only reason for car B not to reserve would be because they are really rubbish at parking or because they don't understand how them reversing is the easiest and safest option.

If reversing a few metres is an issue then you shouldn't be driving.

Why does your option include Car A reversing? They absolutely don’t need to and shouldn’t do that. All they need to do is be patient and wait a moment.

If the parked car was blocking A's view into the minor road, how long does everyone think they should have sat and waited before turning in? Forever?

B was being petty and should have reversed back when it was clear A couldn't safely fit through the gap. Sometimes, roads are blocked and things happen that means you have to do what's safe/practical rather than what's "right" according to the rules of the road.

Car A was in the right, car B was being silly.

If the parked car was blocking A's view into the minor road, how long does everyone think they should have sat and waited before turning in? Forever?

Until the car turning right and Car B moved on.

I am often in Car A's position in the road I live off, if some twat has parked near the junction as there is a house right near the end of the road. I just wait until it is clear to overtake.

Car B is in the wrong

But excellent work on the diagram: you've used a ruler and everything 👌🏼😍

Exactly.

And at the road where I am sometimes Car A, I wouldn't want Car B to reverse unless they absolutely had to because there is no pavement and sometimes pedestrians appear behind them and also there are other parked cars so there is not much visibility.

This thread is enlightening though- I now know why we have so many problems with a chicane locally. I thought idiotic drivers were ignorant of or ignoring the right of way signs but now I realise they are just making their own rules up like "Keep traffic flowing." Which really means "Wah! Wah!, I can't be expected to be delayed on my journey by thirty seconds!"

If I had been approaching in Car B and had seen the situation with Car A turning in then not being able to proceed, I'd slow down to let them come past. But this doesn't appear to be the case, Car B was already almost up to the parked car when Car A appeared. In which case I'd just proceed to the junction queue, knowing once I'd turned left or right Car A could proceed.

This diagram is exactly what happens at my DC school most mornings. My DD nearly got run over as we were crossing the road behind your car A and car A did reverse without looking and nearly ran us over. When we started to cross car A had started to turn into a side road, a pedestrian would have no reason to think it would start to reverse. So I think no one should be reversing and the car trying to get out of the side road should have just creeped forward with caution and everyone else waited.

Yes. Where I live and this situation occurs there would often be pedestrians behind Car B as well.

But OP says in her updates that car A didn't know the road was blocked by the parked car further on until they'd already turned in.

Car A thought their side of the road was free and that they could just turn and drive down the road. The parked car then became visible mid-manouevre.

They couldn't then reverse back on to the main road, and the car turning right couldn't move out because car A was blocking their view.

Car B should have used some common sense and allowed car A to complete the manoeuvre, then moved forward themselves.

They couldn't then reverse back on to the main road, and the car turning right couldn't move out because car A was blocking their view.

It's still on them to wait until the road is clear. The car turning right was obviously able to make their maneuver as Car B did move forward.

But they thought the road was clear until they were half way through their manoeuvre.

OP says they couldn't see the parked car until they'd already started turning into the minor road - so my question is, what else were they supposed to do in the moment?

They couldn't "wait until the road was clear" because it looked perfectly clear until they'd turned in. They couldn't reverse back into moving traffic and they couldn't go forward through the gap.

If B had just reversed back a metre or two, everyone could have got on with their day without all the drama.

If B had just reversed back a metre or two, everyone could have got on with their day without all the drama.

I'm not disputing that. But they were not obliged to and may have had reasons not to e.g. they could see a child behind them that Car A could not.

They couldn't "wait until the road was clear" because it looked perfectly clear until they'd turned in. They couldn't reverse back into moving traffic and they couldn't go forward through the gap.

Wait until the road ahead of them, "the gap", is clear. That is literally the Rule of the Road that applies.

Totally understandable how A got into the situation. And it would have been a nice easy fix for B to reverse but basically, telling other drivers what to do doesn’t always land well with them. If B had been more accommodating he’d have got A out of the pickle they’ve got themself into, caused by C’s bad parking. But you can’t tell other drivers what to do. Just sit and wait. Shrug, smile or shake your head if gestured at.

I accept there could be reasons for B not to reverse back. That's fair enough.

But from A's point of view, the road was clear. They couldn't see the parked car and the too-small gap until it was already too late and they'd already committed to the manoeuvre.

It's all very well saying "just follow the rules of the road" but the rules don't always work in reality when you're dealing with parked cars and other obstacles that shouldn't be there.

We have a similar junction near us where you can't see if the side road is completely clear until you've already begun to turn in. It's also a junction opposite a school and it's absolute chaos every single morning.

You have cars trying to turn left on to the main road who can't see if the road is clear without emerging and waiting in the "moving lane" of traffic.
You have cars in the "moving lane" trying to turn in to the side road who can't do so because emerging cars are stuck.
You also have cars parked way too close to the junction on all sides making bad visibility even worse, plus school children crossing the road where there isn't actually a crossing.

If everyone insisted on following the rules of the road, nobody would get anywhere. It also doesn't help that the main road is the only road in/out of town so there's no other option for anyone!

From the (excellent) diagram, it doesn't seem like vehicle A's rear was sticking out into the road, it was fully able to fit in the gap behind car C leaving a good space in front . The reason the other car (D) wasn't able to see was because A was so big/transit van. If it wasn't safe for D to peep and creep, then A could have gone forward a little to just behind C, to get their butt out of the way and enable D visibility. That A thought more about someone else (B) moving their car despite it being their right of way, rather than positioning itself to solve the visibility issue makes me think this is not about A not wanting to be delayed.

A should also not have been gesturing at B. Very rude!

Both A and B I think could have handled it better. A shouldn't have gestured to B to come forward and been rude about B's driving - and B could have reversed back to let Car A overtake - but the main problem was the owner of the parked car so near the junction

In Terms of 'priority' Car A should wait for the road to clear, then proceed.

In terms of being polite, car B could have hung back to let traffic through rather than cause a snarl up.

Neither covered themselves in glory by gesturing or shouting.

That diagram is gorgeous. Well done.

I think Car A should have let Car Waiting To Turn Right, and probably Car B too, out before they turned into the narrow road, particularly as Car Parked Appallingly was blocking part of the road.

Otherwise Car A should have waited for the other cars to move if it couldn’t comfortably get through the gap.

Excellent diagram though.