To be in this job and feel poor?

[fedippp]

I trained for seven years, reasonably large student loan etc, to end up age 35 on 58k, and barely anything left at the end of the month!!! Mortgage is 1300 for a 2 bed semi, (up from 800 last year). Student loans are still hundreds a month. I have a car on finance as I couldn’t save house deposit and car deposit, need car for work. I eat beans on toast 3 nights a week. I feel like an idiot. I missed out on so much in my twenties to get into a decent job that I thought paid well and it seems to have been a waste of time! Does anyone else feel this way? I feel so disheartened.

These threads usually prompt people to make comments about how that salary will put you in a certain percentage of earners. But people making the real big money are typically not on PAYE and their salaries arent necessarily reflected in national statistics about median income etc. There is also lots of legal and non-legal tax evasion going on. Plus the erosion in QOL through salary suppression over the last 10 years combined with inflation has been huge.

OP is not being unreasonable to feel this way. Rather than saying 'be grateful' we should be getting angry that the typical professional job with decent career progression can still leave you feeling stretched.

I think OP is frustrated as they have worked hard to get where they and in their eyes haven't got a lot to show for it or feel they're struggling, which in reality they're probably not compared to many others.

OP, it might help us understand more if we have a detailed list of your monthly outgoings. That way, we can fully understand where your money is going and some will appreciated more why you're not happy. Also, if you really are struggling MN is great for giving advice on how things could be made easier for you.

I think there are lots of people of a certain age who just don't get it. They don't understand that people our age went through an economic recession in our formative years that's deeply ingrained in us desperately craving financial security. And every time we get a step forward (I remember in 2008 when 300+ people were applying for one basic entry level job and thankfully we don't live in those times anymore), the rug gets pulled again and the goal posts get moved.

My family lost our home in the last recession. I work 90 hour weeks now to stay afloat and I panic about money constantly even though I have savings. I don't trust any financial institutions or any government and likely never will.

I'm extremely tired of being dictated to by people who bought houses cheap in a one income family and paid them off years ago who now go on five cruises a year and complain their heating bills have gone up and the government isn't subsiding them enough. 1 in 4 pensioners today has assets/net worth of over a million pounds.

And it's still never good enough for them, they worked so hard to put their 50 shillings into the system in 1976 and they've somehow worked it out to wanting to be paid 50k a year tax-free today.

And their advice to younger people is to do all the things they'd never dream of doing themselves, since they won't even consider downsizing their 4 or 5 bed home that they live in alone, they'd prefer to complain about their "suffering" instead.

YES THIS!!!

I voted YABU.

I have three degrees and earn less than you do. I feel very privileged to have had a good education and to have found a career that I enjoy. Yes I could be earning more if I'd made different choices but I like working for the public sector - it doesn't pay well but I feel like I'm making a difference.

I think you would be much happier if you can stop comparing yourself to other people and learn to enjoy what you have. Yes 7 years of education should give you a better standard of living in a rich country like the UK than it currently does. But life isn't fair and so many people are so much worse off than you are. You own your own house, you have a good education and a career.

I know a lot of people have said this, but I don't understand why your gas and electricity bills are so high. My gas and electric bills are way lower than yours and I did put the heating on over winter. Do you have a smart meter and are you sure there's no mistake?

Do you need a new car on finance? I have a cheap second hand car, I paid upfront as it wasn't expensive. Works fine for me.

I think the problems happen when you feel entitled to a brand new car, expensive holidays etc, because you've worked hard and are highly qualified. Try looking at life a different way. What do you actually need to be happy, and can you be satisfied with less.

I'm also confused by your budget in general as I earn less than you do and I can afford holidays without difficulty. I feel like if you try putting together a budget you might find you can improve your lifestyle on your current earnings.

"Yes 7 years of education should give you a better standard of living in a rich country like the UK than it currently does."

Yes, this is the entire point of the thread.

"Do you need a new car on finance? I have a cheap second hand car, I paid upfront as it wasn't expensive. Works fine for me."

Yes it works until the clutch dies or something like that and you have a £1,000 bill. As happened to me last year.

"I think the problems happen when you feel entitled to a brand new car, expensive holidays etc"

I don't think she mentioned holidays at all?

"I'm also confused by your budget in general as I earn less than you do and I can afford holidays without difficulty"

I'd look at housing cost - is your mortgage £1,300-1,500?

no, you're not being unreasonable. I'm the highest earner out of my siblings, and I also feel i have nothing to show for it. I don't regret my career choice but reality is money does not go as far as it used to.

my current flat is dirt cheap, it's also very small and when I've looked at moving it terrifies me. the flat i used to live in (which skinted me at the time) has had a 50% rent increase since i moved out.

a lot of people will say youre doing something you love! and yes, i am but I'd like to be rewarded for it. I also hate the idea that you should forego any luxury to have a home. god forbid you enjoy the life you've worked for!

all that to say that no, you didn't make a mistake spending your 20s training. hopefully it will bring you a long, enjoyable, comfortable career but it's okay to want, and believe you deserve, something nice. your salary SHOULD be a lot of money, the cost of everything being extortionate means it definitely doesn't feel that way.

Living standards in this country have plummeted, wage growth is stagnant but basic costs have more than doubled, its depressing.

I'm not surprised you're fed up. Did you do medicine by any chance? My daughter is first year at uni and I see this as her future. I wonder if she will reconsider, despite her love of it and the arduous journey to get her place due to the bleak outlook in that career and how much she has, and will continue to sacrifice to pursue this career. If she switches she will give us less, work less hard and be richer.

I was on a similar salary until recently and totally get what you're saying. It is so expensive being single and we never get any help or even acknowledgement from govt or society - just get forgotten about or, on here, dismissed as having nothing to worry about and our lives aren't as shit as others.

Well, no, maybe they aren't, but it would be nice to have acknowledgement, sometimes that we exist have worries too.

I ended up having to do freelance work on my days off (I work a 9 day fortnight plus had weekends) just to get enough money to pay the mortgage on my modest 2 bed semi - no I'm not in the SE, but I am in an area of the country where public transport is practically non-existent and so need a car. It was exhausting and I went for a whole year with no time off at all as I worked all bank holidays for the overtime (and because it was expected as I don't have children) and only took annual leave to do freelance work.

I'm out of that life now - earning nearly double and life is a bit easier. These days I only do freelance for extra cash and actually have time off.

BUt other single people are still in the hell of having to do everything, be responsible for everything on one salary and no benefits and the worry that if they lose their job, then that's it - financial ruin.

I'm sorry that you're struggling financially.

It's great that you've managed to buy your own house. It's unfortunate that your mortgage payments have increased so significantly, but hopefully that's just a temporary thing, and rates will start to come down again. I don't think you should downsize. Sounds like you're managing the mortgage payments ok, albeit you don't have much disposable income. As time goes by and your salary increases (in line with inflation), your mortgage payments will be lower in comparison to your salary. Also, in the early years, you're paying a lot off the interest. As time goes by, the interest will be less and so raised interest rates won't have the same impact.

How long will you be paying back the student loans? Are we talking months or years? Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

Paying hundreds a month to lease a car isn't ideal. I'd be looking to change that a.s.a.p. Even if it meant taking in a lodger for a year or two to fund a decent, second hand car. Not a brand new, top of the range car but also not a rust bucket - something that will last a few years without incurring high maintenance costs. Are you locked into a contract with the lease company? If so, I'd be looking to have a plan in place to buy your own (second hand) car, by the time the contract expires.

There's only one income coming into your household, so all expenditure has to come out of one salary. That might change if you meet someone and can share the household costs. But of course, if you end up having children, you'll have to take on childcare costs or else sacrifice the second salary. Swings and roundabouts..........

Previous posters have suggested a second job or working overtime. But if you've spent seven years training, I'm guessing you have a medical qualification? Which means you're probably working very long hours already. So probably not an option.

Without access to a detailed breakdown of your expenditure, it's not possible to say if there's any room for leeway. The usual things suggested are shopping at a cheaper supermarket, switching your utility suppliers frequently to avail of new customer offers, cancelling Netflix/Sky/Amazon subscriptions etc.

But perhaps you're not looking for advice? Just frustrated that your salary doesn't give you the lifestyle you expected at your age and given your qualification(s)? Which is fair enough.

Yes

I agree with this and @ElatedBiscuit and @potato57
The standard of living has deteriorated in the last nearly 20 years and particularly since the GFC. Younger generations do undoubtedly have things harder in general compared to their parents.
There does tend to be a huge lack of empathy on these sort of threads. Posters spot a well above average salary and just can't help making unfair and sometimes cruel comments based on false comparisons with their own situation, when their outgoings/ age, etc make their situation very different.
I really sympathise @fedippp. You have worked very hard, done exactly what you were asked to do and are still counting pennies. Of course it doesn't seem fair.

I am a senior teacher on the highest grade and years of experience and I'm on half that!

The OP asked whether she's being unreasonable to feel poor. I thought that was the point of the thread. I don't really understand how she feels poor on £58k, but I don't have full details of her budget (I'm not suggesting she posts full details either, just saying I made the YABU judgement based on the info provided). Someone with a £58k salary and their own house does not sound poor based on my own life experience.

She did mention holidays, just not in her original post. She said she doesn't go on holidays because she can't possibly afford them.

My mortgage is lower than £1300 - £1800, but my salary is also lower. I earn just over £50k now but a few years ago I earned £30k (I've had a career change). I had pretty low earnings until quite recently but I always lived like a student - cheap car, cheap lifestyle in general. I buy second hand clothes, second hand phone. I think the issue is that people tend to live just within their means so as COL increases it's hard to cut back. But it often is possible for people on higher salaries to find ways to cut back.

Yes I do think that just people in the UK deserve a better standard of living, and I think it's totally unfair that people contributing so little to society sometimes get paid so much more (hedgefund managers etc). But I still think that life is happier if you can appreciate what you do have, rather than comparing yourself to others and obsessing about what you can't have.

I earn a lot less that you and have also studied...and live alone and own my own house and car...wish i earnt that!!

Where do you live? The reality is that many single people living in London flat share/ take in a lodger to be able to afford the mortgage. One option is the 5 nights lodger who is only in the city for work and clears off at weekends. If you are outside a big city, this might not work, though.

And they fucked the country with Brexit, don't forget that.

It's all about housing costs here. It's pretty much the one thing that determines how good a life you'll have on a given salary, and it's why you get some people saying "what?! I can live on 30K and and go to Spain with a new car, why can't you", yes but you bought your house years ago in a different part of the country and your mortgage is very low. £1,300 is actually quite a low mortgage payment in the South East now, and I'd be very surprised if that was in London, where you could expect that to be twice as much for a 2 bed.

In my part of the country I wasn't even allowed to rent the house I live in unless our household income was £45,000.

Generalisations or what? Your bitterness and envy isn't a good look.

I think people can only help you if you post your take home pay and outgoings. But saying you feel poor is a bit offensive to those genuinely struggling. Having a 2 bed house and a fancy car is a lot more than a lot of people have.

Yes, the overall standard of living in the UK is steadily declining and has been since 2009. This will be evident at all levels of income, so just because the OP has a higher income than others, still will feel as if she is doing less well than previous generations at a comparable age and qualification level. I'm sure there are plenty of things she could do differently from a budgeting point of view, but I think the point she is making is that she resents that reality, understandably. We have absolutely insane house prices and almost no economic growth.

I've not read all the pages but I've read your posts @fedippp

You're paying a lot for your mortgage. Did you overcommit with a large mortgage? (ie small deposit?) Why has it almost doubled? Even allowing for interest rates going up that's a huge increase.

Unfortunately, some people don't plan for hikes in interest rates and borrow more than they can afford when interest rises. I remember the days when our interest rate hit almost 15% but we'd not borrowed the maximum, allowing for things like that.

Have you contacted a broker and seen if you can get a lower mortgage offer and swap?

You've not given a break down of your net income and your outgoings (and things like student loans.)

I can see the point this poster was making though. We have a joint family income of over 200k - but the reality is that our standard of living is only really marginally better than my parents when I was growing up in the 80s snd 90s where my mum was a SAHM and my dad was in a manual/unskilled job (looking at the govt bandings for the same job now he would be earning around 40k in today's money). OK so we do have a little better standard but the main difference is we have a huge mortgage for a house which is worth about the same as the one my parents still live in!! Yet were earning over 5 times as much as they would be on now. Times have definitely changed!

I think this is more of a dissatisfaction with life.

We often have ideas of how our life will pan out but that rarely happens.

We earn half of what you do and are genuinely poor. I could work more hours but the life i was given means that i care for an adult disabled son and home educate my youngest, i wouldn't change it to spend more time away from them at work.

We don't have holidays or extra/spare money but we are happy.

If you had a partner to share the burden i wonder if you would feel differently? Comparing yourself to others really isn't a good idea.

I am genuinely sorry that you are unhappy and i feel that so many people are struggling to stay afloat but we don't necessarily see that side of things.

Take the positives from your situation and be proactive about what you can do to change things. I know it's hard at the moment, this government are doing the utmost to keep is unhappy but enjoy the simple things if you can 🥰