To be in this job and feel poor?

[fedippp]

I trained for seven years, reasonably large student loan etc, to end up age 35 on 58k, and barely anything left at the end of the month!!! Mortgage is 1300 for a 2 bed semi, (up from 800 last year). Student loans are still hundreds a month. I have a car on finance as I couldn’t save house deposit and car deposit, need car for work. I eat beans on toast 3 nights a week. I feel like an idiot. I missed out on so much in my twenties to get into a decent job that I thought paid well and it seems to have been a waste of time! Does anyone else feel this way? I feel so disheartened.

But OP isn't saying she is poor. She's saying she feels poor. There's a distinct difference. I don't think she, or anyone else, is claiming that she lives on the poverty line, and yes, you could cut back if you wanted to and get a crappier car or take in a lodger, but the whole point of it is that she shouldn't have to do any of those things at that wage. And I don't mean £90 a month phone contracts or whatever, but just a comfortable life where you can pop out and buy a few nice things from Pret at your lunch break rather than eating a stale homemade cheese sandwich; or having a cocktail or two with a friend on a Thursday night - very reasonable things when you have worked hard and earn decently. I trained for 6 years, then worked 2, on very low pay, very long hours, and the last thing I wanted to eat was a tuna sandwich that had been festering in my bag for 8 hours while I waited for an opportunity to eat it. You'd think that after 6 years of intense training and studying and loans you'd be able to just spend a few quid extra a day on a sandwich and not share a mouldy house with the lounge converted to a bedroom with 6 other people. I kinda accepted that as paying my dues, being young etc etc. But you do expect your living standards to improve. Then I did a PhD and have spent ten years in my current work and tbh, my salary is not too dissimilar to OP's. And it really doesn't feel much, particularly with a young child and living in London.

"But OP isn't saying she ispoor. She's saying she feels poor."

@Pigtailsandall

For the avoidance of doubt. This is still silly.

All those nice things will be wrapped up in OPs spending without her realising.

Finance on a brand new car is a nice thing, I would forgo other nice things, like cocktails, for that nice thing.

There is no way that she can be so hand to mouth on that wage (even with the stupid mortgage and student loans) without a fundamental flaw in her budgeting.

OP you sound like you could be an architect from what you’ve said (7 years, low salary etc). If so, I completely understand where you are coming from. It’s a tough job that most people think is well paid but actually isn’t and often involves overtime (I’m talking 9pm-4am finishes) and weekend work with very little pay. I left the industry a while ago but still work in property and feel so much happier and less stressed! If I’m correct, please have a look to see how your skills can transfer (because they definitely can) and give it a try!

@StreathamLocal2023 OP you sound like you could be an architect from what you’ve said (7 years, low salary etc).

Sorry, low salary?

Did you miss the part where she said her salary is a colossal 58k?

The problem with this whole conversation is whether £58k is "colossal" depends very much where in the country you live, what your life stage is, how much your mortgage payments are.

In the South East it's liveable with a bit of money left over but by no means a lavish lifestyle. As a single earner with kids in a 3 bed house you might even find it's very hard to live on that. A 3 bed house where I live is minimum £350,000 and I rent a 3 bed house (nothing special, 1 hour out of London) for £1,500 a month.

In the North East where it's possible to buy a 3 bed semi for around £150,000 or rent one for £500 a month it is indeed colossal, and likely very difficult to obtain.

OP doesn’t have kids though unless I’ve missed it? And whilst I wouldn’t describe their salary colossal, their issue is more her huge loans and poor budgeting skills (evidenced by the fact she’s spending over £200 per month on fuel).

Updated based on what she's said, I think this is about as good as you could do it? Assuming this £600pcm post grad loan is not something she could avoid.

This assumes no pension savings which of course you'd have to do at some point.

I mean you could nitpick about a cheaper phone or food shopping but it won't move the needle much.

It's liveable but not amazing? Probably not as good as people think it is.

I did a similar exercise last night for April Budgeting. Sole earner, similar base salary to Op but with a bonus that tops up. Not a ‘colossal’ salary and not feeling the benefits of years of study, plus ongoing study and development.

I don’t know what the answer is - obviously people on lower salaries really struggling but the tax burden is starting to pinch with inflation and fiscal drag.

We need to have a conversation as a country about expectations for living standards. It’s going to get worse as the working age population declines and costs of medical and social care for an ageing population increase. I’d like wealth to be put on the table as option for taxation as increasingly the focus on income feels unfair

It’s not great but more than a lot of people have left at the end of the month!

Although things have got worse recently, this isn’t as new as people seem to think. I can remember all the fuss years ago about middle class JAMs (just about managing).

hopefully interest rates will come down soon and that will help reduce costs for people.

If people's savings or value of their car, handbag, equity in the house or pension were included ("wealth" mentioned above) were subject to even more tax than they are now that would be a big change from what we currently have and make people do more what I have - I paid university costs and fees for my children and help with a first house which is why I have very few savings nor any private pension at my age (and less "wealth" to tax). My council tax and also stamp duty are alread high property taxes and when I die the state takes about 40% of my house value away in IHT. All the equity in my house has already been taxed at 40% (due to my house) so I think it might be a bit unfair to start taking chunks of people's private sector pensions or houses away in an asset or penalising savers tax. I would rather we just withdrew a lot of health care from old people, abolished the NHS etc before we started stealing assets.

Am I reading this correctly? You want to abolish the NHS? In the US, going bankrupt and losing your home during to medical debt are very real.

Xenia · Today 13:52

I would rather we just withdrew a lot of health care from old people, abolished the NHS etc before we started stealing assets.

Xenia, we are already well aware that you would far prefer to see people die due to lack of health care and medical attention rather than you part with any of your substantial financial assets or your holidays in the Caribbean.

Definitely not suggesting we withdraw NHS care from the elderly! But NHS funding has to be part of the conversation. What do we want the state to continue to pay for and what is the most fair way of doing this?
More focus on contribution to society vs what you take out too. Not only monetary but recognising the value of roles in society; is everyone doing their bit or are some people running away with silver and running out on their bill.

How would you determine the value of someone’s role in society? Are you suggesting higher weighting for a higher level taxpayer v someone on a minimum wage v someone long term unemployed v a stay at home parent? A good society doesn’t work like that.

It's a well paid job in my eyes but I can't work any more hours otherwise I'd have to pay for childcare so I'd probably end up with even less!!

Plenty of countries do not have an NHS. It is not the UK religion or our "culture" that we must support having an NHS. If we are going to have tons of old people and hardly any young ones it is a debate that needs to be had.

How do you propose health care is provided - the numbers requiring treatment is at an all time high and is unlikely to reduce. The majority of the population can’t afford anything additional to their budget let alone funding healthcare costs.

I always find it interesting on how salary/income can make people be harsh on circumstances.

I have friends on £20k, they are in council accommodation, receive some income support, go on holidays and very happy.
I have other friends on like OP, earn £60k, but due to expenses on the job they are in, it is like they are on much less (fuel/travel) etc. and do feel like they are making do.

Me and my wife earn decent wages, but still have times we feel stressed because as we’ve earnt more our lifestyle expenses increased. One vet bill can be stressful (albeit a luxury stress so to speak).
I was asked recently about my income from a colleague who wanted to go self employed like me, as I earn easily more than double them, until they realise I spend £200 per week on fuel and £3-400 per week on train tickets.
Everything is perspective, i always think of the picture of the person walking wanting the bicycle someone’s riding, that person wants the old runabout car, that person wants the Ferrari, and so on.

OP, it’s ok to feel stressed, most people are currently. The only way to feel better financially though, is either another income stream (Someone mentioned lodger), or cut your cloth somewhere.

In regards to the NHS, getting rid of it is absolutely stupid! However it is not free, it’s a subsidised private health system. It’s free at the point of service, we all pay for it through taxation. Those that don’t pay (don’t or can’t work), still require the same support and that is the way it needs to stay. No one knows when they may have to stop working.

£58k isn't "colossal". In fact, the 2016 equivalent (which is what most people seem to compare to) was £44k. The equivalent from when the OP was at university (2009) would be £38k.

Those salaries are all seven years apart, which shows how shit things are right now.

@ntmdino what would £58k in 2016 be equivalent to in 2024?

£76k.

Check it out here:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

It's really quite depressing. My starting salary was pretty low in 1998, £16k (as an unqualified, inexperienced IT tech). That's the equivalent of £29k now.

Surely 200 per month on fuel depends on how much driving she needs to do. Fuel is expensive and if that’s her commute it is what it is and not something she can cut back on

Yes, those are all very high salaries for those time points.

Have you lost your mind? Maybe if everyone didn't drive ugly SUVs, we would all have a lot more money in our pockets.

I'd put them at "high" rather than "very high", but equally...neither of those are "colossal".

Can't disagree about the SUVs, though.

I think I forgot how many wealthy and privileged people exist on mumsnet.