Segregation at playtimes

[PlaytimeBlues]

My DD, 9, is in year five. The class teacher has told us the kids are often falling out at playtimes with bickering and name-calling that has led to disruption in class.

They’ve decided to deal with this by dividing the children into groups at playtimes - most of the class is in a general group that can go where they like and interact with anyone as they please, and then two groups that have to wear bibs (yellow and green). The greens have to stay in one area, the yellows in a different area, and they are not allowed to move out of these designated areas. The general population are allowed to interact with the groups in bibs, if they choose to.

When this was introduced my DD was really upset, saying that she felt she was marked out as a ‘naughty kid’ by having to wear a bib, and unhappy that she couldn’t be with the friends she normally plays with. Friends in the free-range group can play with her, but only if they choose to go to the area she’s in. The teacher has insisted DD is not a ‘naughty kid’ and that this way of doing things is to encourage children to make different friendships - it’s not a punishment, but a way of defusing the arguments.

AIBU to feel uncomfortable with this? Or is this a perfectly normal way of dealing with behavioural issues? I feel like the bib-wearing and confinement to certain areas is stigmatising and it’s been going on for nearly a month now. I’m not one to complain to teachers lightly and feel I need some perspective on this.

Yes!

Yes I'm going to try and get to the bottom of it.

I want to be clear - if my child is causing problems, I want to know, I want to deal with it, and I want the school to deal with it in an appropriate and helpful way. I promise I'm not trying to squirm out of responsibility, I'm just perplexed

Presumably if your daughter has been put in one of the bib groups, this means she has been involved in the bickering/name calling/falling out? It would be more productive if the teacher actually spoke to you about any problem behaviour so that you can address it at home. And the same for other children who are doing this. Putting bibs on children and segregation doesn't really address the issues, it just gives the teacher a break from having to deal with it.

This sounds like a really shit solution to what is probably just a problem with lack of staff supervision at lunch time. Can you rally together parent volunteers to help supervise at lunchtime? This was the proposed solution in my school. Parent volunteers had to have the school’s advanced DBS checks.

Try not to focus on the shit solution, try to think of other better solutions.

I might be totally wrong here, I also don't think what they are doing is right but I also have no idea how many bickering children they are dealing with.

In a large family if siblings/cousins are constantly low level bickering, snide comments, snippy, then they are eventually sent to different parts of the house. The ones who respond to goading tend to be given the "nicer" parts of the house such as lounge whereas the instigators tend to be sent to their rooms. This could be seen as favouring certain children as they "all" bicker.

DD can get silly sometimes,
High spirits, she can get pulled into 'showing off' in front of a group.
but yes, they will join in bickering sometimes.

Sounds like she/her actions are causing reactions in others. In a different group or school or even age, this would not be a problem. However, in this particular moment in time your DDs showing off and silliness is causing enough serious ripples across the school pond for her to be apart from the others.

So she isn't deliberately being naughty but I think, as her parent, you need to help teach her that showing off is not a particularly nice personality trait to have, nobody appreciates a showing off adult for instance, nobody. Nor is high spirits. We all moderate our behaviour and speech to where/who we are with. Cause and effect - your dd is one of the causes, the resulting bickering is effect.

I hope I'm not coming across as nasty, I don't mean to be.

Children bickering and falling out is entirely normal. Segregation is not.
I do despair at schools and the lines of disciplinary action they're taking at the moment. Especially behaviour that is normal.

Ex primary teacher and this would concern me. Greatly.

I think going in for a chat is a good idea, possibly centering around how you can help your daughter with getting on with others. But I would really think that it wouldn’t be a good idea for this to continue as it currently is after Easter.

I dont understand how this system is meant to work if it's not the kids causing troubles that are segregated (made to wear bibs). Why are some random kids not allowed to behave as freely as everyone else? Surely, it can't be random as this Also means that a kid thought to be causing trouble could be in the free group where they could continue to cause trouble anywhere they like and with anyone they want as they have access to everything.

Also, it is stigmatising. It would be ok I think to.temporarily reateict the trouble making kids till they start behaving better but this random allocation sounds like nonsense and is very unfair.

It sounds awful.

It should be clear to the children what behaviours are expected of them and what the consequences of misbehaviour are. If your daughter has breached the behaviour agreement then it should be explained to her and if she is incapable of understanding this, it should be explained to you, when you asked.

If segregation is required, then it much be clear why, for how long and how to get out of segregation.

If your daughter is involved... the teacher needs to explain this to you and more importantly, to her.

We do not lock people up because they might offend, nor do we lock people up to prevent them from being harmed by other people.

If sanctions are required, then they should be fairly applied. If kids need to be separated, it should be made clear to them why they are being separated. The bib system really sounds terrible.

Sounds a bit like what used to happen with my DD. She was one of the good ones - teachers told me this. She used to be put on a table of naughty ones to try and get the others to behave properly! Great - sacrifice my DDs progress because some kids haven't been properly brought up.

I would be asking strong questions about the length of time this has gone on, exactly why my DD had been separated from her friends, and how exactly this scheme was helping the children learn to mix together. And firmly requesting hat my DD now be swapped out if the scheme was continuing.

The first comparison that comes to mind with this…. One group having to wear a star on their clothes.
it’s not ok

With respect, not fighting or swearing at teachers is a pretty low bar for acceptable behaviour.

Could it be that she's been involved in some low-level disruptive behaviour or, dare I say it, bullying?

This sounds like a situation where the teacher needs a bit of perspective because presumably it’s a working solution to a real problem; it’s also a solution with numerous adverse outcomes too. Sometimes teachers are too close to a situation and need an alternative perspective. Please offer that perspective because this is not okay.

I'm a headteacher and this wouldn't be happening in my school.

If there's that much of a problem that a number of children have to be segregated I would think there's a bigger problem of behaviour management (lack of)

And I REALLY don't like the bibs/labelling

OP I believe the teacher when they are saying she’s not causing problems. They’re also saying that they are trying to diffuse a situation it could be that some ‘good children’ have been put in the bibbed groups to try and encourage friendships with those that have more social problems. Always unfair to those that do as expected.

I would only accept this if all kids were rotated onto bibs (so it was temporary with a definite end date and all kids had this “non-punishment”) O agree with your dd that it suspiciously sounds like she is being punished and instead of telling 2 kids who clash a lot to leave each other alone in the playground, the school are being ridiculous.
Is it just year 5 or all years?

Teachers don’t usually monitor the playground. Is the school using lack of playground supervisors as an excuse for this ?

Also how do they know that none of the bibbed kids are just taking the bib off and hiding them behind a bin or something? I'd be amazed if none of them are sneaky enough for that.

It's clearly a punishment, isn't it?

The overall effect is that some children have had their "privilege" to associate with certain other children and go to certain areas of the playground removed. Whereas other children have maintained that privilege.

Hard to conclude anything but that the "bibbed" groups are being punished.

I would go to the teacher and say that your DD is being punished, so you want to understand what she has done wrong and you'd like it made clear to her what actions she needs to take to earn back the privileges that have been removed from her.

I'd email the head and explain your dd is unhappy with it and you disagree with it. You do not want her to wear it again

*With respect, not fighting or swearing at teachers is a pretty low bar for acceptable behaviour.

Could it be that she's been involved in some low-level disruptive behaviour or, dare I say it, bullying?*

We do set the bar higher, these are behaviours she has witnessed (and been subjected to) sometimes.

If my child has been bullying anyone and/or causing disruption, I'd expect to be told clearly and I'd want to work with the school to resolve it.

Wtf?? Of course this isn't OK

Teachers can generally do no wrong on MN though op. But on no normal planet is this a good way of dealing with it.

Have you raised it as a formal complaint?

A mother's high spirits tends to be a teacher's absolute nightmare tbf.