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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Neighbour has rented out our property abroad without permission!

470 replies

unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:10

My father has a property in Spain. It's been in the family since the 70s as a holiday home. Until 3/4 years ago my father travelled there regularly and the place was occasionally used by other family. Then my father had a catastrophic stroke and wasn't able to travel for a while and the place wasn't used as much.

The neighbour there offered to keep an eye on the place in return for his family being able to stay there on the odd weekend/couple of weeks in the summer. He's a nice guy and has done a lot to modernise the property. My father then gave him permission to rent out the flat when it wasn't being used, again, for the odd weekend / couple of weeks in the summer, nothing permanent or long term and we were to be kept informed about who was staying there and when in advance of it being rented out.

Fast forward to this year and my father has recovered enough to travel. We've booked to go there in June, all very excited. My father emailed the neighbour, only to be told that it's not possible because he's rented the property out until January! Not only is this not permitted, we weren't even told! I am absolutely outraged and my father is very cross. He's emailed the neighbour to say that we will be arriving on said dates and that's non-negotiable, the neighbour has replied to say that he's away this week so will respond next week. Meanwhile, flights have been booked, all on the assumption that we were to be notified in advance of it being rented out.

There's communication between my father and the neighbour referring to the agreement, but no specific contract or anything, and the arrangement has worked well until now. I think what has happened is that the neighbour has become used to us not using it and has been renting it out far more than we were aware.

So what do we do now if he refuses to get the 'tenants' to leave?! Surely their contract with the neighbour is null and void because he doesn't have permission to rent it out on this basis? The neighbour DEFINITELY knows this.

AIBU to demand the people leave so we can use the flat as and when we want?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Projectme · 21/04/2024 07:47

Hope your booking a flight out there! How awful you're having to sort all this out after your dad's medical episode and all the aftermath of that.

Original poster
unsurebut · 21/04/2024 19:44

No, we haven't booked flights yet. My dad won't until we have confirmation that the flat will be empty. I've had no choice but to sit back and let him 'handle' it 🙄 But I'm getting cross all over again now. This is ridiculous 😡

OP posts:
Original poster
unsurebut · 21/04/2024 19:48

Just sent this to my dad -

"Just tell him that we’re arriving on X date and will be going to the flat. As simple as that. No questions, no ifs or buts. Take the control away from him. He’s clearly not listening to you xxx"

Let's see what he says....

OP posts:
AdriftAbroad1 · 21/04/2024 19:53

Hi again OP,

I was also thinking abot you.
You really do need to go over now IMO.

You are being far too "British" about this.
May/June peak rental season starts.

Original poster
unsurebut · 21/04/2024 19:59

I completely agree!!!!! But my hands are tied. My dad wants to handle it himself 🤦‍♀️

OP posts:
justasking111 · 21/04/2024 20:11

unsurebut · 21/04/2024 19:59

I completely agree!!!!! But my hands are tied. My dad wants to handle it himself 🤦‍♀️

There's nothing you can do if he wants to take the reins again. Just say kindly Dad lets talk about something else you know what you want to do. If you change your mind let us know.

Myglassishalffullish · 21/04/2024 21:27

What is he doing to “handle it”? …. Anything? 🥴

Original poster
unsurebut · 21/04/2024 23:08

In his words "constantly harassing Hakam". Who I think has just switched off. Arghhh, it makes me so angry!

OP posts:
WallaceinAnderland · 21/04/2024 23:15

Your dad might be right. There's no point insisting if you can't actually enforce it. The law might not be on your side here.

Original poster
unsurebut · 22/04/2024 08:51

The problem is that he knows that we don't have keys (he changes the locks twice a year for safety). But I'm thinking that we just tell him we'll be calling a locksmith if we can't get in. I think this guy needs a rocket up the proverbial.

OP posts:
Myglassishalffullish · 22/04/2024 08:56

He really doesn’t give a shit so yes, actions will speak louder than words.
Are the tenants still there?

WarshipRocinante · 22/04/2024 08:57

unsurebut · 22/04/2024 08:51

The problem is that he knows that we don't have keys (he changes the locks twice a year for safety). But I'm thinking that we just tell him we'll be calling a locksmith if we can't get in. I think this guy needs a rocket up the proverbial.

Your dad doesn’t even have keys to his own property? Jesus. Does your dad actually have mental capacity? I mean, is he actually OK to own property and be in control of it?

Either get out there and sort it or walk away and leave your dad to deal with it.

Catza · 22/04/2024 10:01

unsurebut · 22/04/2024 08:51

The problem is that he knows that we don't have keys (he changes the locks twice a year for safety). But I'm thinking that we just tell him we'll be calling a locksmith if we can't get in. I think this guy needs a rocket up the proverbial.

You can threaten all you like but if someone is currently living at the property, you will be charged with breaking and entering. Have you actually contacted a solicitor in Spain? I think you should because you are on very shaky ground here according to Spanish law.
I do think you should travel. And you should politely knock on the door to find out if the property is occupied and, potentially speak to the tenants about the way forward. I was in a similar situation and, while I did not have legal recourse to get my property back into immediate possession, at least I was able to sign the new contract with the tenant under my own name and change the locks with their agreement. And they very kindly called the police when the guy they originally signed up with showed up to demand rent.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/04/2024 10:14

My father insisted he be allowed to deal with the issue and guess what? Nothing has happened

If your father has capacity I'd be tempted to let him do just that - only it would also have to include refusing to get involved if things go even more wrong and he gets himself into a state

At the moment it seems everyone's nagging everyone else while "Hakam" goes right on collecting, but unfortunately there's only so much you can do given you're not actually the property owner

diddl · 22/04/2024 10:22

The problem is that he knows that we don't have keys (he changes the locks twice a year for safety).

JFC!

Can this guy prove that he has permission to rent out?

Can your Dad prove he hasn't?

I mean he has keys & is permitted to change locks!!

WallaceinAnderland · 22/04/2024 10:46

I think your dad knows he has messed up by not doing things properly and legally.

Original poster
unsurebut · 24/04/2024 08:32

As I mentioned further up the thread no one from the family has been to the flat for 4 years. We have keys for the old locks but not the new ones because we haven't been there to pick them up!

I'm seeing my dad today and will be putting pressure on to get more proactive.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/04/2024 09:11

unsurebut · 24/04/2024 08:32

As I mentioned further up the thread no one from the family has been to the flat for 4 years. We have keys for the old locks but not the new ones because we haven't been there to pick them up!

I'm seeing my dad today and will be putting pressure on to get more proactive.

What with Covid and your dad's sad illness I can understand leaving a visit so long, but TBH it doesn't sound ideal and to my mind the place may have been better sold to avoid all these problems

Good luck persuading him to act though; frankly it sounds as if he just wants to stick his head in the sand and you may have to simply leave him to it

Projectme · 24/04/2024 09:19

Whilst your dad has been ill, he will still be of the mindset that 'I can cope with it' and he probably doesn't want you to be burdened with it all.

It can be exasperating, sitting on the side-lines, watching it all fall out of bed and knowing that you will be the one to eventually sort it all out but had you been allowed to be involved from the very start of the issue, it would have been sorted quicker and easier. Good luck with your chat with DF today!

AdriftAbroad1 · 24/04/2024 09:45

If he has changed the locks and has possession of the flat after 4years, he considers it his.

You will not get it back now unless you go over denounce "Hazam" and take him to court. (and your father had better have been paying the bills, in HIS name and have proof) Mybet is "Hazam" has switched it all to his name.
He considers he has the "usofructo" and you will be in for a fight proving otherwise; I had no idea he had changed the locks several times and that you were not taking immediate physical action.

Honestly:it is no longer your flat. Totally out of your control and "Hazam" now owns it.
What possessed your father, I have no idea.
Sorry OP.

AccountCreateUsername · 24/04/2024 09:49

BMW6 · 20/03/2024 11:16

So your Dad has been evading tax on rental income for years!

I'd have loved investigating this one when I worked at HMRC Compliance............

Good on OPs dad! Why should billionaires be the only ones to evade tax!

FunkyMonks · 24/04/2024 11:58

Op meant in the kindest way I think you and another family member should take over now the longer your dad drags his heels the worse this is going to get and as Pp have mentioned this person has been changing the locks every so often what proof is there now that your dad owns this property and not this fella I would be getting very concerned that you may have lost this property and there's nothing you or your dad can do to get it back.

WallaceinAnderland · 24/04/2024 12:09

It's a mess. I don't think he's going to see Hakam again and if people are living there he won't get them out without a protracted and expensive legal battle.

trekking1 · 24/04/2024 20:31

unsurebut · 22/04/2024 08:51

The problem is that he knows that we don't have keys (he changes the locks twice a year for safety). But I'm thinking that we just tell him we'll be calling a locksmith if we can't get in. I think this guy needs a rocket up the proverbial.

Why on earth has your dad let this guy changes the locks? Why did he think it's a good idea to not be able to get in your own property ffs

whattimeisourflight · 26/04/2024 12:35

I'd go out on my own and sort it out on your dad's behalf. He has not been well. Don't let them take advantage of him!

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