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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbour has rented out our property abroad without permission!

470 replies

unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:10

My father has a property in Spain. It's been in the family since the 70s as a holiday home. Until 3/4 years ago my father travelled there regularly and the place was occasionally used by other family. Then my father had a catastrophic stroke and wasn't able to travel for a while and the place wasn't used as much.

The neighbour there offered to keep an eye on the place in return for his family being able to stay there on the odd weekend/couple of weeks in the summer. He's a nice guy and has done a lot to modernise the property. My father then gave him permission to rent out the flat when it wasn't being used, again, for the odd weekend / couple of weeks in the summer, nothing permanent or long term and we were to be kept informed about who was staying there and when in advance of it being rented out.

Fast forward to this year and my father has recovered enough to travel. We've booked to go there in June, all very excited. My father emailed the neighbour, only to be told that it's not possible because he's rented the property out until January! Not only is this not permitted, we weren't even told! I am absolutely outraged and my father is very cross. He's emailed the neighbour to say that we will be arriving on said dates and that's non-negotiable, the neighbour has replied to say that he's away this week so will respond next week. Meanwhile, flights have been booked, all on the assumption that we were to be notified in advance of it being rented out.

There's communication between my father and the neighbour referring to the agreement, but no specific contract or anything, and the arrangement has worked well until now. I think what has happened is that the neighbour has become used to us not using it and has been renting it out far more than we were aware.

So what do we do now if he refuses to get the 'tenants' to leave?! Surely their contract with the neighbour is null and void because he doesn't have permission to rent it out on this basis? The neighbour DEFINITELY knows this.

AIBU to demand the people leave so we can use the flat as and when we want?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Mylovelygreendress · 19/03/2024 21:33

MyGooseisTotallyLoose · 19/03/2024 21:12

This reminds me of I'm sure it was the 'Mexican house theif' thread!!

Best thread ever.

unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:38

VisionEuro · 19/03/2024 21:15

Is someone going out with your father?
Can you get a letter posted from someone locally in a solicitor capacity tomorrow stating they have no legal right to the house and need to vacate by X date?

Yes, my DP, DD and I are going.
I like the idea of a letter.

OP posts:
unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:39

Fulshaw · 19/03/2024 21:15

Who gets the rental income?

My father, with a reduction for the neighbour.

OP posts:
unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:40

Andthereyougo · 19/03/2024 21:20

I know it’s a different country but similar happened to my friends who owned a property in France. They were visiting family in the UK and a health event meant they stayed for several months. They agreed to rent their French house to a Dutch family who said they were house hunting in the area for a month. Except they didn’t move out after a month, didn’t pay any more rent. A phone call to the local gendarmerie and a visit from 2 gendarmes had them packing up and out the next day. Might this work in Spain?

That could well be a good idea.

OP posts:
unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:41

Roryhon · 19/03/2024 21:17

I feel sorry for the poor people in the property who have ended up stuck in the middle through no fault of their own. But you need to take legal action against the neighbour. He has probably made a fortune out of your fathers house.

I completely agree, I feel very sorry for those people too. And yes, I'm concerned that he's been making a lot of money from the property.

OP posts:
unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:42

owlsinthedaylight · 19/03/2024 21:27

Has the neighbour rented it out to a single long term tenant? Or is it fully booked on an AirBnB basis to different people?

I believe it's a long term rent until January.

OP posts:
JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 19/03/2024 21:43

Spanish law on squatters is really tough for property owners.

Get out there and change the locks ASAP.

I know someone who walked away from their Spanish property after years of legal fees trying to get rid of squatters.

unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:44

trekking1 · 19/03/2024 21:29

No offense but how on earth did you not see this coming 😅

Well, for years my father has been dealing with this by himself but since the stroke I've started helping out in a few ways because he isn't as capable any more. So I'm only newly on the scene to this shitshow!

OP posts:
canyon2000 · 19/03/2024 21:45

If your father has accepted rent money from them then they have a contract.

BreakfastAtMimis · 19/03/2024 21:49

Oh dear! Maybe your dad should think about selling up.

ButterCrackers · 19/03/2024 21:51

Do you have a key? If so go to your property right away. Don’t wait until June. Open the door. Walk in and then call the police and a locksmith. Take copies of ownership documents. The tenants can stay in the house of the person who illegally rented out your place.

LordPercyPercy · 19/03/2024 21:55

I hate to say it but if it's Spain you're fucked. Squatters have a huge amount of rights, you even have to pay for their lecky and water. Their mere presence is deemed a legally binding tenancy agreement and getting rid of them can take years through the courts.

Star81 · 19/03/2024 21:58

They are in effect squatters and that is a nightmare situation to get into in Spain. They have rights. It’s not easy at all to get rid of them let alone quickly

BurnerName1 · 19/03/2024 22:00

Many property owners refuse to rent out properties in Spain because of their ridiculous rights for squatters.

TheSnowyOwl · 19/03/2024 22:02

You need to get in contact with a Spanish solicitor who deals with property.

Whilst you might not be able to stay in the property due to squatters’ rights, you might find you can sue the neighbour for costs incurred.

Sagarmatha · 19/03/2024 22:04

RandomMess · 19/03/2024 21:17

Spanish law may be different to UK law so I think you need to look into Spanish property and rental law fast.

This. Uk property law is irrelevant here.

LaughterLentil · 19/03/2024 22:11

So, your father receives weekly rental money but didn't know it was a long term rental? Something doesn't add up

AppropriateAdult · 19/03/2024 22:19

Honestly, I'd take a deep breath, wait until the neighbour comes back and have a proper conversation with him
about it. It sounds like he's essentially become an unofficial property manager for your dad over the last few years, and up until now has been really helpful, ensuring that your dad has had an income from a property that he hasn't been able to use himself. He may have got a bit over-enthusiastic and, assuming your dad wasn't going to be travelling out again at this stage, felt it was ok to plan ahead a bit further than previously - obviously this was wrong, but I presume he's not keeping all the rent for himself or anything? Or do you think he's been withholding money up to now? Either way I think rushing in with solicitors and police and locksmiths before you've even got a handle on the situation would be very unhelpful.

trekking1 · 19/03/2024 22:26

unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:39

My father, with a reduction for the neighbour.

So your father gets the income but didn't do the math and realise the income is much more than what you would get from renting it out here and there? That doesn't add up

MadeForThis · 19/03/2024 22:29

In Spain you need a tourist license to rent a property. Your dad could be in trouble for renting it without one.

ThePerfectDog · 19/03/2024 22:31

trekking1 · 19/03/2024 22:26

So your father gets the income but didn't do the math and realise the income is much more than what you would get from renting it out here and there? That doesn't add up

This, I’m confused as to how he didn’t realise- unless you’re saying the neighbour has been stealing the money

Hopingitsahornyfinger · 19/03/2024 22:35

RandomMess · 19/03/2024 21:17

Spanish law may be different to UK law so I think you need to look into Spanish property and rental law fast.

This!

Hope the house is ok Op and your father gets possession back but I'd be wary.

SparkyBlue · 19/03/2024 22:35

AppropriateAdult · 19/03/2024 22:19

Honestly, I'd take a deep breath, wait until the neighbour comes back and have a proper conversation with him
about it. It sounds like he's essentially become an unofficial property manager for your dad over the last few years, and up until now has been really helpful, ensuring that your dad has had an income from a property that he hasn't been able to use himself. He may have got a bit over-enthusiastic and, assuming your dad wasn't going to be travelling out again at this stage, felt it was ok to plan ahead a bit further than previously - obviously this was wrong, but I presume he's not keeping all the rent for himself or anything? Or do you think he's been withholding money up to now? Either way I think rushing in with solicitors and police and locksmiths before you've even got a handle on the situation would be very unhelpful.

This. You've said that the neighbour had been a great help to your Dad so I think he thought getting a longer term tenant in would be the best thing to do.

Rabbiehdbek · 19/03/2024 22:57

So if your dad receives the rent money then he must of knew from the amount it wasn’t a odd weekend?

Changingplace · 19/03/2024 23:04

trekking1 · 19/03/2024 22:26

So your father gets the income but didn't do the math and realise the income is much more than what you would get from renting it out here and there? That doesn't add up

Agreed, surely from the amount of rent money coming through he’d know it was being rented out much more frequently/on going and not the odd week here and there?

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