Neighbour has rented out our property abroad without permission!

[unsurebut]

My father has a property in Spain. It's been in the family since the 70s as a holiday home. Until 3/4 years ago my father travelled there regularly and the place was occasionally used by other family. Then my father had a catastrophic stroke and wasn't able to travel for a while and the place wasn't used as much.

The neighbour there offered to keep an eye on the place in return for his family being able to stay there on the odd weekend/couple of weeks in the summer. He's a nice guy and has done a lot to modernise the property. My father then gave him permission to rent out the flat when it wasn't being used, again, for the odd weekend / couple of weeks in the summer, nothing permanent or long term and we were to be kept informed about who was staying there and when in advance of it being rented out.

Fast forward to this year and my father has recovered enough to travel. We've booked to go there in June, all very excited. My father emailed the neighbour, only to be told that it's not possible because he's rented the property out until January! Not only is this not permitted, we weren't even told! I am absolutely outraged and my father is very cross. He's emailed the neighbour to say that we will be arriving on said dates and that's non-negotiable, the neighbour has replied to say that he's away this week so will respond next week. Meanwhile, flights have been booked, all on the assumption that we were to be notified in advance of it being rented out.

There's communication between my father and the neighbour referring to the agreement, but no specific contract or anything, and the arrangement has worked well until now. I think what has happened is that the neighbour has become used to us not using it and has been renting it out far more than we were aware.

So what do we do now if he refuses to get the 'tenants' to leave?! Surely their contract with the neighbour is null and void because he doesn't have permission to rent it out on this basis? The neighbour DEFINITELY knows this.

AIBU to demand the people leave so we can use the flat as and when we want?

Call the police!!

If the father hasn't been receiving the rental income (from the sounds of it, he hasn't had any in years), surely then he's not evading the tax?

You should also not assume that the father wasn't declaring the rent he received years ago in cash. Just because he received cash, doesn't mean it wasn't declared.

I dont understand why you are being so pushy to get the tennant out at this time of year you cant rent a place for afew quid why dont you just do that. Its obvious the neighbour and your dad had an arrangement which was between them. You said yourself the neighbour did all the maintenance which is a huge thing. If your dad hadn't had the stroke you’d be none the wiser but now you seem to be forcefully going in all guns blazing. How does your dad feel about that?

@unsurebut omg my jaw will forever be nailed to floor at the shocking cheeky fucker behaviour of the neighbour!!! 😱😱😱 Then add on the audacity telling you that you can't stay in your own home and then sodding off on a trip telling you he'll deal with it next week!

Seriously OP get the lawyer on this pronto, as for the taxes if you're father hasn't received the money then technically he's done nothing wrong also with his health being what it is surely he won't held liable when he's had such a serious health problem? I'd get that checked to protect your dad from any backlash.

This must be so stressful you poor thing having to handle this. I'd advise you to be firm with him and tell him HE is responsible for making sure the tennants are out and paying them to leave and go elsewhere since he has probably made thousands out of this. I have a feeling he's gonna avoid having any contact with you the fact he fucked off and refuses to be contactable says it all about his attitude really.

I think this tops The Mexican House Thief post in cheeky fuckery and I thought nothing would ever knock that off of the ultimate cheeky fucker perch!!

Did you miss the post where the OP said HER DAD PAID for the work to begin with?!?! Also the op has stated her dad agreed to neighbour renting it occasionally to family and friends but only with prior permission from the op's dad! The neighbour didn't ask permission, has clearly been renting it out more than agreed and has rented it out long term and then told OP her dad, her and her family can't stay there in their own bloody home! I would be livid if a neighbour did this to my mum and I would fly out immediately to sort this out and change the locks!

Me too, can it be found again for a laugh pls

BigBrotherDoesntKnowWhatACelebrityIs very kindly posted a link and screenshots of the relevant poster's contributions on that thread earlier in this thread.

I am agast that people are still saying "change the locks".

unfortunately that was seriously unwise, the neighbour has probably made a pretty penny off the back of your house 😞. I would fly immediately, empty the Villa, deep clean, change locks and put full security and alarm system. The kind of security that people get called out if the alarm goes off.

the emptying Villa could very well be hard and you’ll have to ring the police and say they have no permission… and hope they help.

Oh ffs there’s always one

You’d probably find the Spanish police will lock you up if you do this. 😂

Spanish Law is completely different and tenants have more rights than they do in the U.K.

The OP has admitted that the neighbour was given permission by her father to rent out the property (effectively making him The Agent) and that the neighbour does pass on money from the let in the form of bundles of cash, so there is an agreement between them that proves that the agent had authority to rent it out. Therefore the let is likely to be viewed by the Spanish courts as entirely Lawful.

It’s going to be virtually impossible to get rid of the tenants in the short term unless they’re willing to leave voluntarily.

The OP needs to ignore all the well meaning advice on this thread and focus on the ones who have actual knowledge of the Spanish legal system!

@Intriguedbythis, this can only be described as seriously batshit crazy advice.

If the OP calls the police after entering the property to physically remove the tenants, it will be the OP herself who will be in serious trouble. The law is Spain is on the side of the tenants in the above situation and the OP would be lucky not to receive a criminal charge.

The OP needs to proceed carefully and get proper legal advice. The first port of call would be to speak with the neighbour.

Her father had a stroke!!!
I don’t think that, “your father created this huge muddle” is the right answer for that.

As frustrating as this is I would give the neighbour until the end of next week to resolve the issue.
As tempting as it is to go in all guns blazing you need to give him chance to get back of holiday and evict the tenants. He now knows he's massively overstepped and if he's a decent person he will resolve it .

@Intriguedbythis You'd get arrested, not assisted. Whoever is living there now has strong legal protection.

Should have appointed an independent agent not a neighbour in the first place I suppose. And installed ring cameras front and back, and checked utility bills for excess usage.

I get that Dad was unwell, but these are basics surely.

Trust no one.

If the father hasn't been receiving the rental income (from the sounds of it, he hasn't had any in years), surely then he's not evading the tax?

I know nothing about the Spanish tax system, but in the UK HMRC don't work like that

If they find out that rent's being paid and how much - and their tentacles are long - they'll assess the tax payable based on this and it'll be up to OP's dad to prove he isn't receiving it

Either way it's a complete mess, and while there may be some allowance for his state of health that doesn't mean they'll just write it off; if he's unable to manage his own affairs he'll be expected to appoint someone else to do it for him and then it'll become their mess

@unsurebut Tread really carefully here. Get informed Spanish advice. Squatters have rights in Spain; it's a real issue here. You have 48 hours after the squatters arrive to have them evicted by the police, and after that it becomes a court issue.

As part of those proceedings, you have to do more than show ownership - you have to show frequent and fruitful use of the property, using evidence such as dated photographs, flight tickets, etc. You can argue that this has not been possible because of your Dad's stroke, but this may well be treated the same as people who own property and cannot visit frequently due to work, or intend to retire there - and frequently those cases find that the property is being put to better use housing Spanish residents in the meantime.

This is more complicated because you can't prove usage and there appears to be a tenancy, and your father has received rent but not declared it. You could open a big can of worms if this is all reported.

The minimum term to evict tenants in Spain is four months; and if the contract they have gives more than that, you'll be bound to that.

Essentially, you are very unlikely to get the property back before your holiday, and you may well be better to seek tax advice, pay back taxes and the relevant fines for the previous cash payments, and take the flat back in January, without antagonising the tenant in the meantime.

Can anyone post a link to the Mexican house thief thread please - after reading this, I am intrigued!

Mexican house thief was a post on this thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_classics/1735637-Have-you-ever-encountered-anyone-this-cheeky?page=6
you'll have to scroll to find it... time stamp on it is
WeAreEternal · 20/04/2013 14:52

@horseyhorsey17 @longapple I posted the screen shots of Mexican House thief on page 9. Enjoy!

Ah, fuck it. Have them again, too good.

I hate reading phone screenshots on a computer and someone asked for a link so I shared it 🤷‍♂️

I agree. I'm Spanish and some of the advice on this thread is bonkers. Spanish law provides tenants with serious rights. I don't know about rights in the UK but in Spain if you have a rental agreement with a legal agent, their family can't terminate it just because the owner for health issues or disinterest, didn't do it themselves.

OP, a good starting point would be to talk to your father and ascertain if the permission he gave to the neighbour was a legal document properly notarised or not.

Your dad and neighbour have conspired to defraud the Spanish government is how they'll see it. What an awful mess. Someone needs to fly out and remove the tenants and hope to God it's not picked up.