Unwanted touch (non-sexual)

[niadainud]

At a group event (more like a conference than a social function) man who I know reasonably well lands his hand on my shoulder and leaves it there. I take hold of his arm (firmly, but not aggressively) and remove it from my shoulder and carry on chatting to people. No big drama as far as I was concerned.

A couple of days later I receive a furious message telling me how rude I had been for doing this and that I should have told him I didn't like being touched. Was I?

Yes, I could have broken off the conversation to politely ask him to remove his hand, but I guess I felt that would almost be making more of it. It all happened very quickly.

Other relevant info: this man claims to be a feminist and general friend and ally to all. No sexual history between us.

Are you both single? I’ve been reading a lot about body language recently and even if you’re not, this might have been a subconscious, territorial move by him to ‘stake his claim’ or show ppl his connection with you - is there any chance he might like you romantically or just be very (too) comfortable around you and think more of you than you do of him?

-hence his OTT, offended reaction. May have hurt him more than you realise and in a different way (he shouldn’t have presumed you’d be alright with it though and certainly shouldn’t have had a go at you days later - fact it was days later though means it really stung him as it wasn’t and instant rebuke once he’d got home, obviously been stewing over it)

Yanbu. Your decision if you want to have any touching. It’s non sexual and I wouldn’t necessarily attach any power play but regardless of its meaning. Unwanted is not ok.
like @TigBitss i have colleagues that were they to do this, it wouldn’t phase me at all. In fact I have male and female colleagues I have stood with both our arms round each other/hug in a friendly pose because we genuinely have affection, again non sexual, for each other. But, you always should do you.

Ugh, you’re really reaching here. Did you miss this bit?

A couple of days later I receive a furious message telling me how rude I had been for doing this and that I should have told him I didn't like being touched

If you read the post I placed directly underneath the one you’re quoting you’ll know the answer to that.

I don’t think it’s reaching to question whether the man fancies her as opposed to just being an entitled and insufferable man. I’m not saying his actions were excusable in any way, but him placing his hand on OP’s shoulder could be bc he feels entitled to do it to her bc of their genders bc they’re friends and he feels comfortable doing it regardless of how she feels, but why would he do this? To belittle or undermine her in some way or to demonstrate his platonic/romantic affection towards her?

Why is that reaching?

The part you quoted about the furious email makes sense if he feels publicly rejected and humiliated, again not saying it’s acceptable behaviour, obviously.

I’m not saying he’s madly in love but unless OP felt threatened or that he was doing it to belittle her as she was speaking, which doesn’t seem to be the case, why else would he do it?

Man furious at not being able to do what he likes with a woman's body. What a shock
No op, YANBU

op described him as a friend

I agree with the pp who says that this man has outed himself as a creep.

I would not reply to his message at all.

And I would try to socialise with him as little as possible.

You didn't do anything wrong, OP. His reaction is over the top. You asserted that you didn't want his arm there by simply removing it, which is totally fine. He's embarrassed so is throwing his toys out of the pram over it - a very immature reaction.

I advised ignoring his message and storing his messages in case he escalated, in the mistaken assumption that he was a colleague.

As OP has corrected this assumption by stating he was actually a friend, there's far less to lose by letting him have it with both barrels. Good for you, OP.

I sincerely hope this creep is now an ex-friend. Who needs enemies, eh?

No, he's married.

So he's even more of a creep than was already apparent from his behaviour. As PP said, OP, have as little to do with him as possible - nothing, for preference. His rage is a huge red flag.

Don't think it's ever brother me either 🤷‍♀️

And I'd have side stepped if it did rather then removing it pointedly.

But then my friends and I are quite tactile so I don't think any male friend of mine would do it without knowing I consent but with knowing it wouldn't bother me.

But like you this thread is raising questions about my own lack of bother 🫣

Interesting! Was his wife there? Her reaction? Did she approve of his email? Will you speak to her about it?

Sad as it is, realistically, just bc he’s married does not prohibit him having feelings for other ppl. He might feel something romantic, or territorial towards you, even if it’s platonic. As a PP said earlier he probably wouldn’t have done it to another man - drop his hand on the shoulder and leave it there. What an idiot.

His pride was obviously injured but when he’s feeling calmer you may point out that yours was too as you felt like you were being made to look smaller or more submissive by his action, and as a woman you’re sensitive to that - AND HE SHOULD BE TOO, ALLEGEDLY BEING A BLOODY FEMINIST!!! 🙄

Maybe if you appeal to this badge of honour of his he’ll be forced to reflect, or drop it at least.

Re. the 'I'm not bothered' posters (for which, read: I couldn't get worked up about that!')

It's OP's body - not least OP's thread. And she IS bothered.

That is the consideration that matters here. It's not about you.

well exactly

but the op starts a thread on AIBU so essentially asking posters what they would have done

From what I remember from my degree, a hand on the shoulder can be territorial in terms of body language (hands off she's mine), but it can also signify dominance over the 'receiver' - mirroring a pat on the back from a superior. It can also be reassuring for someone in a heightened emotional state - which obviously OP wasn't at a formal event.

It would have made me bristle unless it was from a very close friend or family member. In OP's place I'd probably have said 'excuse me' and pulled my shoulder away so he'd have to drop his hand. If I had done something similar (to him) that made someone obviously uncomfortable, I think most people would automatically/naturally apologise and I certainly wouldn't make a fuss about it later like an arse.

He apologised, but made it all about how difficult it was for him. Not sure he really "got it".

Urgh, I'd let it lie and him stew he's obviously "upset" and that's your "fault " for not realising he was harmless and your buddy.

How do you want the friendship to be going forward?

Consent each and every time is the key to this. I used to work for a married bloke who gave the most amazing shoulder rubs. But I had met his wife and knew that she knew that he did this and every single time he would ask 'would a shoulder rub help?' It was a bit strange to start with but to be honest they were soooo nice.

What does he mean difficult?

Well unsurprisingly I've massively gone off the guy and he was already annoying me quite a lot in ways totally unconnected with the scenario I've described. So I'm fairly happy to let it fizzle out.

Yeah that sounds about right just be prepared for him to be baffled and even "more upset" about the whole situation.

He didn't go into details but said I wasn't to know how difficult my response was for him.

Well tough, really. There was a fairly easy way to avoid eliciting my "difficult" response...

You may well be right there but if he does that I'm still sufficiently angry that he will simply get another piece of my mind.

His "apology" very much focused on the fact he didn't know I wouldn't want to be touched, which rather missed the point.