To say DH needs to step in and have a chat with DS

[thatsnotmyswan]

DS1 is 18, in sixth form. He was in a long term relationship of over a year which ended in January. He struggled with this massively, was depressed and very upset. It was a bit messy from what I can tell as she stayed a night in February, but we haven't seen her since.

Today a friend who's DD goes to school with DS informed me about some rumours going about in regards to DS behaviour. Apparently he is harassing his ex, calling her on no caller ID, hanging around outside her classes, shouting at her on her walk home from school saying she's slept with another guy in earshot of everyone. My friend thought it's better we know and talk to him.

I mentioned it to DS tonight, he told me it's not true and people are stirring it and he only wants to talk to her. I told him he's not entitled to talk to her if they have ended the relationship. DS2 stepped in (he's the year below) and told me that he's made fake instagrams to watch her stories without her knowing and checks it loads every day. In DS2s words "he's obsessed and creepy".
DS1 maintained this isn't true and everything's fine.

I've told DH about it and suggested he has a man to man talk, but DH says If DS says it's not true we need to believe him and have his back, even if it was true he's 18 it's not our business. AIBU thinking this isn't good enough and he should step up and have a chat? I'm ashamed of DS if he really is harassing this poor girl and not respecting boundaries.

To put it bluntly if the girl was my daughter and I knew this was happening then I would contact the police. If he is stalking her then he needs to understand the consequences from people who love him and who can support him. An urgent conversation is needed. If he is not doing it and it is just rumours and gossip then it needs to be nipped in the bud and the school need to be informed. Either way he needs help.

Totally agree with this! His behaviour is unacceptable of course, but it sounds like he's unravelling over the break-up - if you can afford it I would get him a few sessions of therapy

You need to point out to him that stalking is a criminal offence. That it needs to stop now, immediately or he will be damaging his chances of decent employment or a university career. Does your DH not realise that.

You also need to impress upon him, that you don't want a stalker as a son and if he is doing this, and he is reported to the police, you won't want him living with you.

Somehow you need to get through to him that it's completely unacceptable and it stops, now.

This is the slippery slope to becoming a really abusive boyfriend/husband in the future or even going too far with this poor girl and hurting her. He needs telling in no uncertain terms that if he is stalking and harassing this girl he is a) abusing her, b) committing a criminal offence and c) it makes him a total scumbag to believe he is entitled to behave this way. It doesn’t matter that HE ‘just wants to talk to her’. She doesn’t want to be around him anymore probably in part because of his shitty behaviour. It’s probably not new. He likely treated her poorly during the relationship too.

Your husband is enabling this awful behaviour. What is his attitude like towards women and girls?

@thatsnotmyswan
Others are right that this needs addressing urgently. It would be good for you and his dad to be united on this and it's really worrying that he won't be. I wonder what his attitude towards women and relationships is? He's being shit and shouldn't leave this all to you.

If other people are concerned then this has gone too far already.

Your son needs guidance on healthy relationships. You can't make someone love you by wearing them down. We all get to have free choice over who we go out with. She doesn't owe him her time or affection.

He needs some help with managing his emotions and coping with rejection. How is his emotional maturity generally? How does he cope with adversity or challenges?

He especially needs to understand how serious this is and the impact on his ex. How frightened and upset she might be.
Could you look at some stalking and harassment guidance together, maybe some case studies? It could help him connect what he sees as 'just trying to talk to her' and the crimes he could be committing.

100% your husband should be talking to your son about how he's supposed to treat women. Obviously DS1 is lying, especially with the "I only want to talk to her" he's as much as admitted it really.

It's harassment, it's illegal and she's entitled to go to the police. He loses his phone entirely, due to the calling, he loses all Internet access due to the online stalking and he has to be taken to and from school, I would walk with him if I could, so he cant shout at her in the streets. Talk to his school, ask that they take an interest to protect this girl from your son, whether that be reporting concerning behaviour to you or escorting him to and from lessons since he's hanging about outside her classes.

Essentially, here is a boy making a girl unsafe in her day to day life, and measured need to be taken to prevent him having access to her to do that.

It continues until he admits it, understands why it isn't acceptable and can show that he's able to leave her alone without supervision.

It's very concerning OP, you know where this path leads as he grown into a man and you need to be firm to stop him from ruining his own life as much as anyone else's.

A long time ago, that girl was my sister after she broke up with her first boyfriend. He wouldn't let up. (Pre mobile) he called the house all hours. He parked up the road. He harassed her, and by default harassed our whole family because he couldn't understand 'no.' He hassled me too to get to her. I was genuinely afraid of him. Our dad had to ring the police, after talking to the boy's family didn't end the behaviour. Boy was over 18, 40 something now, and that is on his permanent record.
You and your son need to stamp this behaviour out. The pain of a first breakup is just about forgivable (although the fake instas are really creepy), but he needs to understand that stalking is not on. No means no.

I'm going to post here as I need somewhere to process and this is as close to totally anonymous as I can get.

Last night after making this post I showed DH the replies and he went and spoke to DS.

DS opened up and admitted that he hasn't "treated her well". All of the rumours are true but not the worst of it.

He claims on the night in February when she stayed. They had sex, then afterwards started talking about if there will be a way forward for them. The next morning they continued the conversation and she told him that she had slept with someone else in the 3/4 weeks since they'd broken up. He told DH he felt violated as he'd never have slept with her if he'd known that and felt used.
He apparently called her some words that were unkind (won't say which ones). She tried to leave and he slammed the door, grabbed her by the arm and stood in front of the door so she couldn't leave. He claims in the moment he wanted to talk to her and was upset. He said he also "thinks he pushed her" . He told us that grabbing her arm left a bruise and she sent him pictures of it and blocked him soon after. He claims he feels awful about it and never meant to hurt her but was frustrated and upset.

He says the reason he keeps trying to talk to her is he is terrified she will tell someone and he will get reported.

I'm so beyond disgusted, ashamed and appalled at his behaviour I don't want him in my house. If it's not bad enough that he hurt the poor girl, he's now stalking her to try and plead with her not to report it?!!

I don't know what to do from here I feel like my brain is fried!!

DH says he just needs therapy and that first love can be difficult. But he hurt a poor girl who by all accounts has been nothing but lovely to him and did nothing wrong!!

I'm shaking with anger right now I don't even know what to do.

She’s more likely to report him as he is now stalking/harassing her.

He needs to leave her alone.

Does he realise what he did was wrong, or is he just worried about being reported?

I think he knows it was wrong. I don't like that he always followed it up with a justification though.

It was

"I never meant to hurt her and I hate that I did but I just wanted to finish the conversation"

I'm sickened by the whole thing.

He has admitted it so now is the time to step up as parents. You need to support him through whatever the consequences of this may be with love. It is hard but you have an opportunity for him to learn never to do this again. Be firm, open, honest and supportive. You are not excusing the behaviour but helping him. My dad used to say to me always be honest with me and I will be by your side always, lie and I cannot help you. Put this into practice.

OP I’m sorry. I’m glad he’s told you the truth now. His behaviour is completely unacceptable and dangerous but he is young and can get help. It’s a little known fact that the highest rate of DV is in relationships where they are age 16-24 because of lack of knowledge about relationships, poor emotional control etc.

Get him help now, he needs a therapist to do work on emotion management and healthy relationships so he doesn’t go on to be a prolific abuser.

DH says If DS says it's not true we need to believe him and have his back

But your other son says it is true. Why doesn't your DH 'need to believe' DS2? I also very much doubt that your friend would have had that very difficult conversation with you about your son without genuine cause for concern.

It sounds very much to me as if your DH is only keen to believe people who tell him what he wants to hear.

My friend was stalked at 18 by a boy she met in her first weeks at university. He also told his tutor and housemates that it wasn't true and his parents chose not to get involved. As a result, his behaviour continued for two years until one of his housemates witnessed some of it and reported him to the university.

He clearly doesn't understand (or refuses to face up to) the meaning of consent, boundaries, and female autonomy.

For a boy of his age to be displaying such controlling, coercive behaviours is a huge red flag.

I would be reading him the riot act and spelling out to him that these are the kind of behaviours that could land him in jail.

That poor girl. If I was her parent I'd be banging on your front door and getting the police round.

This would be a wonderful opportunity for you dh to also engage in therapy/starting his own journey learning healthier skills/integrity etc In joining your son this could be a wonderful bonding and supportive journey for them both. Its really important they both see the importance of them being healthy men.

If left to your dh he didn't want to do anything about it he saw no issue. He was happier to ignore the warning signs. That is an issue.

As your son is 18 he really needs to be the driving force behind this change so finding his own therapist researching podcasts books to facilitate learning new skills. You can have lots of compassion and support for him. But he needs to be the one to take the responsibility on.

I'd really recommend Dr Alok kanojjia he has recently done a podcast episode on diary of a ceo which would be helpful for your son in starting to understand himself. Not all will apply to him but it's a starting point to feeling he isn't alone.

Knowing and admitting it's wrong is a good start at least.

I think the next step is unpacking his feelings around why he did it. He reacted emotionally to learning she'd slept with someone else, and he's reacting emotionally now when he feels he needs to communicate something to someone who doesn't want to hear it.

His feelings are not reasonable and his reactions are unacceptable. She didn't violate him by sleeping with someone else after they'd split up; he's not entitled to know about a woman's sexual history.

And while it's understandable that he's now afraid she'll report him, that's simply a consequence of hurting her. It doesn't matter that he didn't mean to - he DID. And another consequence of hurting her is that he doesn't get to say whatever he feels he needs to say, no matter how important he thinks it is. It's not important for her any more. If he feels so bad about hurting her, why is he now compounding that hurt by stalking her?

He's 18 so too young to write him off as a future abuser, but there are some serious lessons he needs to learn about emotional control, entitlement and respect here.

agree with @mumonthehill

It'll be a tough road ahead, even if she doesn't report him to the Police.

OP, your comment about your DH saying 'he just needs a therapist'; are you saying that your DH is minimising the issue and has kind of treated it with an air of 'don't dramatize things; it'll all blow over' kind of attitude? I really hope not.

Ok.. he needs to apologise to her virtually and needs to commit to leaving her alone going forward for ever and tell her He is lucky she hasn't reported him to the police as yet .

You sound great by the way !

Your DH is minimising this dreadfully - but you aren't. You are the person that needs to speak to DS because your DH is making things worse, not better, with his attitude.

You need to hammer home to your son that he crossed a line and the ONLY acceptable course of action is to back off and stay well away from this poor girl. He can't fix what he did with a conversation. He's making it worse not better by trying. What she does next is not within his control and trying to coerce her into doing/not doing anything is making everything worse. He did what he did and he cannot control the consequences now - but he can avoid more and worse consequences by leaving her very much alone.

If I were you I would be mandating that he attends therapy and watches as many documentaries as you can find about violence against women, as well as reading accounts written by female victims of stalking. I would also confiscate all his devices so he is unable to contact her.

Tell him if he fails to comply with any of this, or ever tries to communicate with her again, you will inform the police yourself.

You also need to inform his school so that they can keep an eye on the situation- this girl's teachers need to check he isn't outside her classroom before she leaves.

I’d tell the police. Nasty little stalker.

ETA just caught up. Even worse. Your husband is quite the prince too isnt he. A phrase involving apples and trees comes to mind.

There is no smoke without fire - lots of rumours and your second son says it’s true.

Your husband’s response is more than disappointing. So much for healthy male influence☹️. I bet for every woman abused, there is someone saying - I just don’t believe it/I love my son so I’m going to support him…

This toxicity is the start of things to come, so he needs kicking into touch and quickly.

I hope the young woman has a strong support system and someone who will report or encourage her to report this harassment. He needs consequences.

A lovely, kind and reasoned response.