To think change is desperately needed in schools?

[GibberingPeck]

I work with young children. Today I was hit twice and scratched on the face so hard it drew blood. This has not happened to me before and I’ve worked in schools for many years. I was trying to stop a child hurting another child. The school’s stance seems to be that I shouldn’t have intervened or somehow dealt with the situation badly. I think they saw I was bleeding, but ignored it as they have so much to deal with. This year, I think I’ve seen more violent and aggressive behaviour from children than I’ve ever seen. And no way of dealing with it - it seems to have become acceptable or ‘the norm’.

Can we write to MNHQ and ask to have a special place for brainstorming this stuff? I mean we could ask couldn't we?

I'll report my own post and ask.

The emergence of home learning and associated screens during covid was not the problem per se: The kids were on screens 24/7 anyway and just started using them educationally (which is what parents kidded themselves was the reason they gave their kid an ipad aged 2).

The problem was that they had zero time with their care givers, the ones who are there first thing in the morning, are interested in them, notice them, socialise them, model good behaviour, the person they want to impress and please.

Their teachers.

This is why I think schools need to change. For whatever reason, our cohort of children are changing.

This is the crux of the matter- society has changed, so teaching needs to change as well. It’s folly to expect society as a whole to reorder itself to suit one element.

For many reasons teachers are not given automatic deference anymore, people have different expectations of the school system and the system needs to adapt to what people want and need now, not keep harping back to 10/20/50 years ago when the country was a different place.

No other industry expects to survive and thrive without taking into consideration the times they are operating in.

@WhenIsTheGeneralElection

Go for it!

Done!

I genuinely think some parents are surprised they have to 'do' anything. Some parents treat their children as an inconvenience. I've heard parents refer to their childen 'affectionately' as little shits and worse. A lot of parents are emotionally immature and disregulated themselves - when their child shouts at them, they just shout back; when their child calls them names, they call names back. The children learnt it from their parents and their parents are surprised that their child doesn't behave any better than they taught it to.

But, ultimately, the issue is multifaceted.

The introduction of Gove's new 2014 curriculum was when I first started to notice significant behavioural decline in schools. At this point, TAs became more involved in the academic progress of children and stepped away from a 'softer' more nurturing and supportive role, from which the children really benefitted to a more progress and attainment one. That's if you have a TA. I've not had one for 6 years now with no plans for one next year either

This meant that the children who were not being parented appropriately at home no longer received social and emotional support in the same way in schools.

So a lot of low level behavioural issues- eg turn taking, conflict resolution, emotional regulation (anger management) etc that wasn't being taught at home was no longer being addressed in schools either. I started seeing behaviours issues such as these that used to be mainly KS1 issues turn into KS2 issues. TAs previously would often take small groups in the afternoons to work on these skills. This has stopped.

It's easy to blame society and lack of grandparents and long working hours but it isn't that simple because I know and have taught many children whose parents work long hours who don't behave badly and it doesn't acount for the many childen whose parents don't work and still behave like this.

Three children in my class go to after school club. The rest are picked up by parents. I don't have any major behavioural issues but many significant low level issues. I teach UKS2. Some don't speak in full sentences, some are unable to express themselves and their needs appropriately. They are confrontational and aggressive in their verbal manner even when they are not angry regardless of who they are talking to. Their parents are the same towards them and to staff. Many of the others lack emotional resilience.

I've taught in Reception classes where the children don't know how to sit and listen to a story because no one has ever read to them.

The curriculum is over stuffed and the focus is on getting 'evidence' in books. The expectations of presentation etc is so high that I have children asking me to rip pages out for them so they can start again. And all the time I'm thinking, "I just need the evidence in your book."

And the expectation of 'coverage' means children are dealing with cognitive overload from new learning for hours every day with little time to just be. A lot of schools are adopting more 'efficient and effective' approaches to learning which means that children are just being stacked full of new information evert day. It's overwhelming for me as an adult. I can't imagine what it's like for a child.

Some parents are so concerned for their children's education that they are taking them for 2 hours of extra tuition every week with the associated homework from that.

I have children who are consistently 'working towards' in every area of the curriculum whose parents are taking them for 11+ tuition. Not to bridge gaps in their current learning but because of the lure of getting their child into grammar school. In some cases, these children are on the SEND register for cognition and learning. Which means they are working at below their year group. Some of them are still struggling to recognise where to put a full stop in a sentence and their parents are having them coached for the 11+.

There is a combination of huge pressure on these children with absolutely no understanding of the fact that children are still developing, aren't mini adults, can't just be filled with information and knowledge without addressing their holistic needs.

The hours we are required to spend on specific subjects and the time required to cover the sheer number of objectives we have to cover exceed the number of learning hours children have in school.

It's apparent that, in order to fit everything in, a lot of the children are spoon-fed the curriculum in the lower years so they lack independent learning skills they need by the time they get to UKS2 and beyond.

And this results in children who are overwhelmed, unable to self regulate, with poor interpersonal skills, who've not had 'learning behaviours' (eg the ability to follow instructions, communicate effectively, or listen) modelled and taught to them at home or school. Combined with parents who have unrealistic expectations for them but who also take no actual responsibility for their child's learning.

They're quite happy to tick the box of taking their child to a tutor for yet another person to teach them but woe betide you suggest they listen to their child read themselves.

This is so outdated but also so wrong. I don't NEED to work FT but I CHOOSE to work FT and yet my children's behaviour is incredibly good. I teach them about hard work, ambition and respect - just last night my daughter was asking how I deal with certain situations at work. And the money I earn pays for them to go to an independent school, which we chose because the values and ethos are aligned with our own and because the children's behaviour and respect for staff is, on the whole, amazing. My daughters have to shake their teacher's hand at the end of the day and thank them. I will be criticised for this but frankly it flies in the face of the criticism that is being levelled at working parents here (including any single working parent clearly).

The opposite was the case in our house. When DS came home for the first lockdown he was barely functioning, misersable and literally couldn't point his eyes forwards reliably. The first lockdown did wonders for him. He and I worked side by side from books and we solved so many problems. By the end of the lockdown he was calm and well and happy for the first time in years. He went back to school and has crashed again and I've had to remove him again.

I think that there is not a one-size-fits-all thing going on here. Sometimes the teacher is the good role model, but for some kids, school is just not working.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

It may well be that we need more schools to potty train, to teach language and communication

If that is the case, then we need to give school more money (for staffing) and less pressure (Ofsted/league tables). Teachers can’t be expected to single-handedly get better and better results whilst leading subjects for Deep Dives (for no extra time or money) whilst potty training, with the risk that if some piece of paper is missing, then the school is in RI. Something has to give, and at the moment it’s pupil and staff mental health.

This is such an interesting post. A real insight. I knew Gove was deeply unpopular amongst teachers but had no idea what a direct negative impact his meddlings have made.

Also interesting about the pre school curriculum. I noticed a massive decline in anything structured between the years when my 1st went to nursery and my 2nd between (between yrs 2017 and 2022). I just assumed the nursery had become a lot worse as it was under new management. My son it seems was left to roam around outside for most of the day. Where as my dd did ‘circle time’ and many more group based activities. Some more formal learning (numbers/letters). My expectation was that they should do some more school type activities. No wonder kids can’t cope when they get in a classroom. The forest school outdoor play stuff is great but I think a balance is needed. Personally I think kids should be getting plenty of outdoor/park play at home and nursery for getting school ready, but obviously this isn’t the case. Again parenting and screens come into play.

This basically.

I worked in an infant school for 13 years and recently left because I was sick and tired (quite literally) of the appalling behaviour. Parents complaining about everything and next to no support from SLT.

I'm so glad that my children have already been through school because unless you work/have worked in one, you would be horrified at some of the behaviour and I'd be worried sick about them.

I'm sorry you were hurt @GibberingPeck
I was kicked so hard a few years back that I had the bruises for weeks! Another colleague was seriously injured and SLT didn't even send her a bunch of flowers, let alone consequences for the child.

It's awful.

I had children in the late 70’s and early 80’s and these mythical stay at home mums just simply didn’t exist. Everyone I knew had to work due to the cost of living, there were no parents who had the luxury of being a stay at home mum.
Whether it was part time once the main wage earner came home (usually men), or full time and rushing like mad to get back for kids coming out of school, it was a struggle then, just as it is now.
Not everyone then, had parents on call to pick up the slack of child care etc, it was a battle then, the same as it is now.
Kids were expected to behave and were punished (not by hitting them), but by denying them things they wanted to do, seeing their friends, going out etc etc
People have to actually start being parents, being the bad guy who stops their children from being abusive towards other children and adults.
Consequences must be given for bad behaviour and followed through, the amount of times you hear parents saying “if you do that again” etc etc, but not actually removing them. You must give a warning for bad behaviour and follow through with whatever consequence you have said for the bad behaviour.
It is a pain and is horrible for the parents sometimes, but if you’ve warned them you’ll be leaving the park/ wherever, then DO IT!!!
Having a family is exhausting, expensive and hard work, unless you have the means to outsource all the housework, childcare to other people, you have to adjust to being knackered from juggling everything and everyone!!!
Stop expecting everyone else to be your child’s parent, get off screens, take kids out for 10 minutes to the park or wherever, instead of buying the latest gadgets invest in spending time with your kids doing things with them, teaching them how to brush their hair/teeth, how to count, how to behave.
It’s not easy, it’s a pain repeating yourself to teach them basic skills, but as a parent you have to do it, not rely on others to teach your child basic skills before they start school.

This is spot on.
In some ways by not expecting children with ASD/ADHD to control their behaviour, we are doing them a great disservice for later life.

It’s not easy, it’s a pain repeating yourself to teach them basic skills, but as a parent you have to do it, not rely on others to teach your child basic skills before they start school.

I agree with your whole post.

I know (because they've told me) that some parents don't understand that children need this repetition so they just give up at home because it's too hard. Many of them really do think that teachers have a special secret skill that they're not privy to which enables us to do it better than them.

So they 'leave it to the experts'.

Some of them will justify it by saying they have 2 other children to look after so it's hard. Yeah? Well, when you leave it to me, I have 29 other children to look after and also educate on top of the parenting you've delegated to me.

Sadly even children without disability appear to start school in increasing numbers unable to use the toilet, feeling they can behave as they want to, no boundaries. Messy eating due to child led weaning
Parents letting children make their own decisions.

Is it gentle parenting, lack of clear boundaries and routine? Spending very long days in nurseries that are stretched. Parents abdicating teaching their own children to others. Lack of role models.

Or is it something else?

Gove’s ‘meddling’ did so much damage to schools in my opinion (ex teacher here).
Since his changes in 2014 everything started to turn for the worse.

Suddenly there was no longer any room for creativity and the curriculum became overstuffed with outdated, boring, irrelevant stuff that today’s kids do not need to learn. It was horrendous for me to have to teach all of that stuff when I could see the vast majority of my pupils were glazing over at best and sadly many just couldn’t keep up. The pressures ramped up and subjects like music, art, PE, DT (even history and geography to a large extent) got squeezed out in favour of very heavy focus on maths and English. Even science went from being a core subject to a non-core.

The Tory government under Gove were motivated by two things. One by an attempt to ‘keep up’ with the eastern Tiger economies in the league tables with no thought as to the fact that we in the UK are a different type of society with a different set of values and skills. And two he had this misguided belief that if he could only replicate his own Eton Victorian-style education, standards would rise. So he added things like very heavy grammar (primary school), fronted adverbials for 8 year olds, the subjunctive tense for ten year olds, moved a lot of objectives down at least two year groups so things that had previously been taught in Year 4 for example are now taught in Year 2.

The result has been a massive decrease in enjoyment and engagement for many kids. The fast- paced, high pressured, SAT focused dry curriculum just does not suit the vast majority of students. In fact it’s making many disengage.

Couple this with all the constant assessments and all the similar issues at Secondary school (draconian rules, high pressured curriculum, bullying, underfunding, lack of send support, raac, teacher burnout etc etc) and it’s no wonder parents are pulling their children out by the hundreds because they’re anxious and stressed.

I home educate my DC now too.

@malificent7 the students (children, pupils) having all the power goes right up to HE and is a deliberate strategy on the part of the govt and in turn amplified by SMTs. Perhaps there’s some good intentions of an over correction from unchecked bullying and abusive teaching (which has/does exist) to a child-centred approach.

However there is a significant element of both govts/SMTs leveraging children and targets to control a teachers’ actions by making them responsible for student’s behaviour and academic attainment. Resulting in an insidious and subtle outcome of students learning to absolve themselves of responsibility for their own actions and learning and to blame the teacher.

But also screen and phone addictions with their dopamine hits purposely designed into both phone and every game and every app to sell and keep people glued to their screens so more of their data can be sold irt. Social media harming children and parents alike thanks to algorithms actively designed to do so for monetary gain. Programmes, games and streaming encouraging extreme behaviour to get attention, keep users online, and for more likes. Children watch and model. It’s how they learn.

Parents have lost confidence in their parenting for many reasons. Children are actively conditioned to want more material goods. Parents who are depressed, disillusioned, exhausted or can’t be asked to do the hard work in parenting against an onslaught of advertising and social comparisons. It’s bloody tiring to say no a thousand times a day.

Children being put into formal education at a too young age to enable two working parents, necessary for continuous economic expansion. Austerity reducing staff, resources, and the sale of hundreds and hundreds of school playing fields. Reductions in art, music, sports, drama as the non-core subjects are increasingly seen as unaffordable extras. An ever expanding curriculum with more added and nothing ever dropped each year.

The structure and system is designed and works for fewer and fewer children against a backdrop of an economic system monetising absolutely everything. Including childhood. Where do you even start?

I agree with a lot of this.

Unfortunately, most of this is because we are living in an ‘end stage capitalist’ era/society.

Systems like schools haven’t changed for decades but society has changed massively.

Absolutely this.

The pressures ramped up and subjects like music, art, PE, DT (even history and geography to a large extent) got squeezed out in favour of very heavy focus on maths and English. Even science went from being a core subject to a non-core

Yep.

Only then they put a focus on the 'broad and balanced curriculum' which meant that all those things became important again without the time to teach them or any changes to the expectations around the core subjects.

@benefitstaxcredithelp yes absolutely. Ever increasing technological ’fixes’ and the burning desire for higher profit margins and easy money on the one hand and underinvestment by the state on the other leaves parents and children in a bad place.

It's apparent that, in order to fit everything in, a lot of the children are spoon-fed the curriculum in the lower years so they lack independent learning skills they need by the time they get to UKS2 and beyond.

Then they get to university and are confronted with the concept of self study and the wheels come off. They want to know what is the right answer. Tell me how to get a first. Learning is pressured and transactional. Students are increasingly stressed.

Alas, the institutional response is to start replicating what’s happening in schools and expect spoon feeding. More recently, everything taught at university has to have some sort of employability-related outcome due to pressure from the govt.