Unrealistic expectations of 8 year old?

[BoyMamma2]

feel like an AH right now for being annoyed at almost 9 year old and wondering if my expectations are unrealistic.
Out today and he’s eating ice cream with his fingers . He can use a knife and fork but prefers not to. Every Single Meal since he’s been 3 I’ve reminded him not to use his fingers. Every Single Time!
Evert night his room is a disaster . I don’t expect him to clean but I do ask he doesn’t leave clothes on the floor. I’ve been asking this for 2 year but he’s never once picked any up. We have fabric car seats and I have asked him repeatedly not to stand on them to climb out. I feel that I spend my days repeating myself.

am I unreasonable to expect an almost 9!year old to do these things? Sick of moaning and wonder if I should just ignore these thing till he’s older. He’s no learning difficulties.

Now I'm not usually the person on a thread to suggest ND. But he could be dyspraxic ?

Fiinding cutlery difficult to use and disorganisation and messiness are classic signs of dyspraxia

You think it’s disgusting. In much of the world it’s completely normal. But anyway, nowhere does the OP say her son was in public eating ice cream with his fingers. I think it’s fine to do at home around family, at home people should be free to be relaxed, to be themselves and not to have to bend to societal norms. Using cutlery does not come naturally to everybody, I’m not saying it shouldn’t be encouraged or that the OP shouldn’t be reminding her son but punishing and removing his food if he uses his fingers seems unnecessarily cruel and almost draconian in approach. OP says if she reminds her son he will use his cutlery, and it takes literally a second to say, ‘DS, spoon’ so I don’t see why anything more extreme is required.

@MolkosTeenageAngst

Op says they were out in public when he was eating ice cream with his fingers

it doesn’t sound like he has an issue with it as in he can’t physically do it because when op tells him to

so he should be using cutlery, it’s good manners

Many thanks for all the advice. I don’t think it’s ND as he’s able to use cutlery fine with no pain etc. I think it’s partly habit and a lot of laziness. School have no concerns.

He does get told to stop and will finish rest of meal with cutlery no issues. But next meal he defaults back.

I take the point on consequences. With the car I have been making him go back in and leave properly which helps for a period then he defaults back. With the rest I accept I mainly tell him off but I need to follow that with a consequence.

we had a chat there and he’s aware new boundaries will be coming.

Yanbu. It is your job to teach him where the socially acceptable lines are. Clothes on floor...as peers. Eating ice cream with fingers. No way. Take it off him or he'll be socially unacceptable in his friend group.

The bedroom - can you use incentives like pocket money to encourage him to keep it clean? Better than punishment for not keeping it clean.

Why does he need to be 'rewarded' for doing the basic and bare minimum? Why doesn't he need to be punished. This is where things go wrong.

DCD doesn’t involve pain, that would probably more be associated with hyper mobility or something.

How is he at sports? Does he like them? When did he learn to ride a bike and tie laces?

Put it this way:
If you are behaving as a normal parent would, and have been all his life and he has got to this age and still has a preference to use his hands to eat there is probably a bit of ND going on as it’s still better in his eyes to be nagged at that it is to automatically use cutlery.

My 11yr old can use cutlery, occasionally will of his own accord, especially for things that you wouldn’t necessarily use cutlery for, bizarrely, like pizza or chips, but most of the time, if left to his own devices he will use his hands. He simply cannot tidy his room unless you sit with him and talk through every little step.

Yes was going to say this too. My DS was the same, would literally pick up mashed potato or fish something from a curry sauce with fingers.I had to constantly supervise him until about 9. He needs to learn but you might have to really work at it. My DS had sensory issues as a young child so I thought it was this but he also genuinely struggled to cut with a knife and couldn't zip his coat. He was eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia which explains a lot. He is almost 11 now, he can do everything but prefers not to whenever he can as it is uncomfortable.

This is utterly ridiculous if there is no SEN etc. my 18 month old can use a spoon to eat ice cream / yoghurts etc.
he does have a habit of sometimes trying to use fingers for cereal.
I pick up the spoon and pass it to him and tell him to use it & help if necessary.

I wouldn't let him eat it with his fingers at home let alone in a restaurant.

He isn't great with a knife and fork yet so I don't mind if he uses fingers for non messy stuff but we start with a knife and fork and I help until he gets bored and then eats it with his hands.

Would not accept this from my 4.5year old.

My 8 year old needs constant reminding to use cutlery. He doesn't argue about it when reminded, or get cross, he just doesn't remember. And it's multiple times a meal. Sometimes every second mouthful. It is trying OP, I get you.

I think being able to use cutlery correctly is important and have coached my child (8) from a very young age.

My step son’s have not had the same coaching and it’s had a detrimental impact on my child. So they now all get coached together.

Being able to use cutlery and chew with your mouth closed are absolute basics.

Persevere op.

@BingoLob he rode a bike without stabilisers at 4, plays football and swims well. He can’t tie shoelaces yet. We’ve tried a few times and he really struggles.

In general I’d say he is slow to learn. He takes longer to pick up new skills compared to his peers but does get there. He’s great at maths but spelling/reading has been a challenge. School says he not behind but agree it’s more difficult for him. They don’t think it’s an issue though.

Have to agree with you here.

I won’t financially reward carrying out what are ultimately basic life skills. Nobody pays an adult as a reward for keeping their home tidy, it is just a basic.

What is his handwriting like? We have just discovered my Dd is dyspraxic. She has weak muscles in her fore arms which affects her pincer grip. She struggles with cutting food up and would prefer to not bother with cutlery!

Two of my four DC have diagnosed ADHD (11 and 16), the other two have been (pretty much) neat as pins since they were little. The two ADHD ones will have a fork in one hand and still be absent-mindedly eating off their plate with the fingers of the other hand, although perfectly capable of doing it once reminded (and reminded and reminded and reminded). They can tidy their room (with guidance) but it takes seconds for it to look like a hurricane hit it again. It drives me WILD, but I try to focus on the progress they make, the things they do well, and making them happy and good people.

Internet diagnosis by strangers isn’t helpful, I’m know, but have a look again at ADHD and its various forms.

I know it’s hard because we see too much lax parenting (ie. ‘I can’t be bothered to parent, here, have a smartphone instead’) and the effect it has on young people, but if OP’s son is ND, then punishments absolutely do not work.

We can’t tell from her posts, but it reminds me so much of both my ADHD DC at that age. I remember wanting to punish those habits out of them, and quickly realising I was destroying their self esteem and not giving them any tools to do better, because their brains simply didn’t work that way. I still pull my hair out, and feel extremely frustrated, but I don’t punish them for things they are doing not out of laziness or ignorance.

I hate how people are so scared to suggest neurodiversity nowadays on these threads because there is always someone ready to take them out
“they don't need an assessment!!!”
“they just need consequences”
“too many people being diagnosed”

Op he is not doing these things to be ‘naughty’ or disrespectful. He is doing them because they feel natural (for example when you said his name he immediately worried and picked up a spoon) I would really sit down and look at his behaviours with compassion and try and support. Talk to him and connect with him rather than moan at him. Maybe he doesn’t understand the social rules of not eating with fingers etc.

This ^^ 💯

My son is severely dyspraxic. But the way forward isn't by shaming, it's by example and this will work all children, NT or not. It's so horrible that on a parenting site a child has to be ND to get any empathy if they are less than perfect.

Things that helped my son were, 'let's tidy up this room' rather than 'you need to tidy up your room'. By helping, you can see where the problem is. Do they not understand how to start? Do they need help with the process of tidying and what 'tidy'means? Is it too overwhelming when it's gone too far? Do they think things are fine with a little bit of clutter - then it suddenly shifts to 'too much' as it accumulates? Will lists help - for daily tasks, weekly tasks, monthly tasks?

You may find through this that you become more aware of indicators that he isn't NT (if he isn't). Look out for him not being able to follow more than one instruction at a time, for example.

But yes, maybe he is simply 8. He's a little kid, and they don't think in the same way as adults because their brains aren't mature.

If he is ND you need to manage your expectations and your strategies. Just constantly nagging him will get you nowhere -and be very frustrating for you both. Start reading around these topics and sensory processing issues…

I wouldn’t be surprised if he got a DCD diagnosis if you pursued it. All it means is that his motor skills are in the bottom 5% of the population. It may be worth reading up on DCD and strategies to help even if you don’t take things further. Only you can decide whether a diagnosis is useful for your son. They can be helpful in explaining difference and understanding yourself and therefore improving mental health but can also be used as an excuse not to try in some cases.

If his executive functioning skills are also poor he may struggle more at secondary and having a diagnosis may get him on SEN support’s radar a bit more, even if everything is supposed to be needs not diagnosis based. It may reduce punishments for things he cannot help and instead illicit additional support or at least understanding.

Thats young to be responsible off his own back.
Some kids are good at it, some aren’t. Parenting is keep repeating until they do it. I only kept my room tidy when I bought my own house as there was no one else to do it.
I only stopped reminding DS2 to brush his teeth & shower last year when he liked a girl in his form (aged 16!) and started doing it without being reminded. He’s always kept his room tidy just not himself.
DS1 is an untidy so and so. Leaves clothes and crap all over his bedroom floor. I tell him constantly to clear up. He never does a full job. When he goes to Uni he’ll either be wading through empty wrappers and clothes or he’ll tidy up. He has always been untidy but bodily clean

My now older teen, who is extremely creative, used to eat lots of food with her fingers. She used to make sort of statues out of things like mashed potatoes or squish beans into a paste and mould them into faces or whatever. Landscapes with broccoli. She was relaxed and happy at mealtime, I think she used to make up stories about the food creations too.

I just used to let her get on with it as long as she ate it. She could already use a knife and fork as a young toddler and used them outside of the home and when we had company, but when it was just us I'd let her be herself.

I had decided from when my kids were very small to not make the meal table a battle ground, so as long as she was in her own home, eating her food and not harming anyone else, then that was fine by me.
She grew out of it at some point, possibly around 7/8.

@Windwwwash

I don’t think the op is a lax parent at all, she’s cared enough to post about it here.

I am probably ND though never formally diagnosed. Had a fairly strict upbringing, which I think suited me - clear boundaries and expectations always.

When I said “persevere” I meant, keep coaching him until he gets it with cutlery. The same with tidying - it’s just repetition.

A bit untidy ,yes, eating ice cream with fingers a big no no !! I'd take the ice cream away if mine did that