Unrealistic expectations of 8 year old?

[BoyMamma2]

feel like an AH right now for being annoyed at almost 9 year old and wondering if my expectations are unrealistic.
Out today and he’s eating ice cream with his fingers . He can use a knife and fork but prefers not to. Every Single Meal since he’s been 3 I’ve reminded him not to use his fingers. Every Single Time!
Evert night his room is a disaster . I don’t expect him to clean but I do ask he doesn’t leave clothes on the floor. I’ve been asking this for 2 year but he’s never once picked any up. We have fabric car seats and I have asked him repeatedly not to stand on them to climb out. I feel that I spend my days repeating myself.

am I unreasonable to expect an almost 9!year old to do these things? Sick of moaning and wonder if I should just ignore these thing till he’s older. He’s no learning difficulties.

Car seats: long protracted system in place to prevent the issue. They get bored of the system, frustrated and start to remember to avoid it. Eg get cheap car slippers, make him stand there, put shoes into a carrier bag and put slippers on. It drives them mad and you’ll find he remembers more when you make it more awkward for him.

cutlery: just keep taking the food off him everytime. Don’t comment? Pick it up and move it. If you want time for a minute then give it back. Again, frustrate him and he’ll remember.

room: again no comment. Have a box or cupboard downstairs. Pick things up and put stuff in there. I chucked it in carrier bags in the garage for a bit. They run out of stuff and it’s a nightmare to fetch it. Obviously factor time in to getting dressed! I wasn’t a cow, I allowed clothes for the next day over a chair or something.

Basically rather than you being inconvenienced make him inconvenienced. Stick to it. They develop fast that way

@LolaSmiles don’t expect perfection but he’s told not to every single time. I’m struggling to get through
Other than words what are you putting in place? That's not snarky by the way. It reminds of something I saw when DC were younger that I found helpful.

The example I liked about boundaries was where a mother said she was getting frustrated that she had to keep telling her child to not hit the elevator buttons to access their flat. She said her frustration was because she kept telling him and putting in the boundaries, but then she realised that she wasn't actually putting the boundary in place.
The boundary is something that happens regardless of whether her son liked it or not, so she changed strategy.
Next time she calmly said not to touch the buttons and she physically stood between her son and the buttons. Now she was holding the boundary. He was free feel however he wanted about it, but she was actually holding the boundary here.

With ice cream from a bowl, I'd say that telling a 9 year old to stop using his hands isn't holding the boundary. Providing him with a spoon and then removing the ice cream if he uses his hands is holding the boundary.

Could DCD be part of it? Using cutlery and staying organised could just be that much harder for him that he doesn’t do it unless made to.

For main courses I'd just constantly remind him. For desserts, I'd say when I give it "please use your cutlery, or I'll take this away".

Is your cutlery the right size for him? Does he struggle to grip it - maybe some thicker cutlery? Or maybe it's a bit too big/long and he needs something smaller?

Do you eat meals together?

OP my 7 year old is similar.
He prefers eating with his fingers which I'm fine with in the house, but when we're out he knows he has to use a knife and fork.

Clothes on the floor? Yeah typical here.
DH is the same. I scoop them up to hoover underneath but I refuse to put them away. If that means things are crumpled or smelly, that's not my problem.

I always tell DS that I will do my part of looking after him and his stuff but unfortunately if things get ruined because he doesn't take care of them, then he doesn't get replacements. If he can't eat nicely when we're out, then he doesn't come.

Sounds like he could be ND. I'd be arranging an assessment personally.

So he does know he shouldn't be doing it. Honestly, If I was getting worn out with the reminding I'd stop reminding and just remove the food the minute he started picking it up with his fingers.

The bedroom - can you use incentives like pocket money to encourage him to keep it clean? Better than punishment for not keeping it clean.

He doesn't need an 'assessment'.
He needs boundaries and consistency.
If he tries to eat ('a proper meal' ... main/ice cream, whatever) with fingers - TAKE IT AWAY.
You've been telling him for 5 years. It obviously isn't working is it?
Apply similar (common sense) measures in other situations you're not happy with.
Be CONSISTENT, and FIRM..
If, eventually (I'd give it 3, - 6 months max).
Then look towards assessesment.
Meanwhile ... is he in school? Does he eat with fingers there! Are they concerned with any aspects of his development?
I suspect you need to 'step up' before he will.

I have autism and adhd and when I’m at home alone I often eat foods with my fingers that most people wouldn’t, I just find it more natural for some reason. I loved the year I spent living in India where eating most foods with your hands is the norm and round it a shame to go back to cutlery when I got back to the UK. To be honest eating with his fingers isn’t a big deal, I think all the people saying they’d remove the food are being really strict. It’s not harming anybody to eat with his fingers so that kind of punishment seems unnecessary. Just keep reminding him and I expect the expectation will either become ingrained eventually or he will be old enough to make his own decisions about which social norms he will follow and which he is confident enough to go against.

1 No more ice cream until you can eat meals with your knife and fork.

2 No screen time until your room is tidy.

How have you got to this point?

He's 8 and still eats like this. You need a back bone and consequences. Sorry OP but the eating is on you. He can eat with cutlery but is choosing not to.

What are the consequences?

I have two 8 year olds. If DD leaves her room a tip I put everything on the floor in a bag and take them away! She has to earn them back by keeping her room clear.

If she keeps eating with her fingers then I remind her that's what babies do and babies don't get nice puddings! Just some fruit...

DD is more stubborn than DS. DS understands the consequences and knows mummy is a mean cow and will follow through with any threats 🤣

I know people go to neurodiversity straight away. But I'm wondering if it could be a sensory thing or something to do with habit forming? I say this as a nd person. I don't know if its common to have to remind them at that age to use cutlery.

YABU because you aren’t parenting him. You’re just expecting him to do it and moaning that he isn’t.

He doesn’t listen to you or do as he’s told because he has no reason to. Why should he?

You haven’t taught him how to behave appropriately and are shocked that he doesn’t

My 11yr old son still finds cutlery challenging and will revert to hands if feasible, probs not Icecream or in a restaurant but at home for lots of things if I'm not watching. He was referred to OT, and apparently quite common for children with adhd.

YABU for letting it get to that stage! If my 2 yo eats with his hands, I take his plate away until he picks up his fork. Period.

You don't think eating with fingers is a big deal?

What about when having dinner out in a nice restaurant with a group of friends?
What about when having a formal lunch after an interview?
What about when eating in an officers mess?
What about when meeting your fiance's parents?

You really don't think eating with fingers is a big deal?

Its not the same exact issues but I really sympathize re: repeating yourself.

With my DS it’s leaving apple cores around the house to rot, vaulting over the back of the sofa and never ever flushing the toilet (number 2s!!!!!).

I ask. I demonstrate. I remonstrate. I remind. I cajole. I talk about consideration. I calmly remind about rational consequences (sofa vaulting? If the sofa breaks we can’t afford holiday 🤷‍♀️) . I punish- Can’t be trusted to sit your arse on the sofa like a reasonable person, instead must leap over and onto it Iike a bloody 4 foot frog? Go sit in your room for 5 mins. Yeah on occasion I shout.

Not a blind bit of blasted difference.

No, I really don’t think it’s a big deal for an 8 year old to choose to eat with his fingers snd I doubt an 8 year old is going to be in any of the above situations for a decade or more. Obviously by the time he has reached adulthood he will have better executive function and will be able to assess whether to use his fingers or not, which is what I do. I eat with my fingers whenever I can get away with it but do accept there are situations it isn’t socially acceptable and I will use cutlery in those situations, although I typically avoid formal dining situations if I can as they tend to be socially overwhelming.

Yea, he was scooping it up from a bowl in a restaurant . He literally will eat anything with his fingers. I did considering removing his meal whenever he did it but seemed cruel to leave him hungry

I'd be taking the bowl off him of he used his fingers. That's nonsense a 9 year old not using cutlery.

So he's hungry? He'll not die missing one meal but you give him it back on the understanding he eats it properly.

At the moment there aren't consequences so he's going to keep doing it. So take his dinner away until he uses cutlery. Don't give him ice cream at all until he uses a spoon.

I think you should ask him about it.
Like do you just forget to eat with your hands or is it something else?

At his age he might be able to articulate what's going on for him be is sensory, forgetfulness, doesn't seem why it's important etc.

If he is able to explain it to you then you can work out what's going to help more.

The clothes thing is fairly typical I would say.

The rest, I'm afraid, does not sound typical. At 9, SEND/disability issues aside, he should know to use cutlery - especially for things like spag bol or ice cream. My son is only 10 so not much older but has used appropriate cutlery without reminding for years. If it's something like pizza, he might pick it up, but nothing else.

He also gets in and out of the car without standing on the seats - I don't recall him ever doing this. He has been climbing in and out pretty much by himself from 18 months old as he was a big baby and my back wouldn't stand lifting him by then.

However, although these things are not typical, it may be that your son genuinely forgets/can't process instructions properly. I would speak to school and see if they have noticed anything.

I think you are mistaken that it isn’t a big deal. It very much is, and OP is doing a real disservice to her child by not enforcing this.
You are perfectly aware that in the UK eating with fingers is socially unacceptable in front of others, because you know to do it privately. Eating liquidy foods with fingers is actually quite disgusting past weaning.

I don’t know whether this boy is ND, but something has to change here.

I have 2 DDs.
DD2 is 7yo, puts her clothes in the wash basket without reminding, uses cutlery and follows other table manners easily without a battle, and generally follows instructions well.
DD1 is 9yo (nearly 10). She does all the things you describe. I can repeat things until I'm blue in the face and she still struggles with the basics. They have been parented in exactly the same way, and we are very much in the school of removing the ice cream if she persists in using her hands after being corrected on it and given the chance to stop. The difference between them is DD1 is diagnosed with ASD, ADHD, and hypermobility. She actively avoids using cutlery and things like pencils because it hurts her hands, even with the adapted stuff we've bought her (although these do improve things immensely). She also genuinely doesn't see mess, her working memory is so poor that she struggles to remember even fairly short instructions, and her focus is awful which causes her to struggle to keep focused and on track. It can send you demented, but she does try very hard so we keep calmly reminding and hope it will all click eventually. Her development in certain aspects is several years behind her peers, so we live in hope she'll get there!
Basically what I'm saying is that he may well be being awkward/bloody minded, but there are sometimes legitimate reasons for the behaviour too (not that it is an excuse to stop correcting them!).

Floordrobe is normal. Ds in now a teen and cleans it up maybe 2 or 3 times a week because he’s at an age where he wants to wear particular items of clothes when he goes out.

Has his friends and ever commented ? If he has packed lunch then I understand that they may mainly see him eat finger food but ice cream with fingers is very unusual. He must have to wash his hands all day.