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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People who don’t carry their bank cards with them

868 replies

Auburngal · 16/03/2024 14:19

I was in Sainsbury’s this morning and systems are down. No contactless, chip n pin taking ages to go through. Unable to buy gift cards, mobile top up vouchers.

Systems going down like this happen not very often but when they do it’s awful.

On the self scan next to me a woman screamed at the manager on why she can’t pay on her mobile.

Why do many people don’t carry their bank cards anymore? The cards don’t weigh much. Plus if the contactless payment system goes down, hopefully their card will go through via chip n pin. Also they won’t look like idiots either. No sympathy for these.

Regarding contactless payments- sometimes your bank, NOT the retailer etc asks you to do a CnP payment as part of security. “I dunno my PIN”. You can change your PIN to any number you want (not 1234, 1111) at any ATM under PIN services.

OP posts:
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Grimchmas · 17/03/2024 08:43

Allfur · 17/03/2024 08:38

I love the freedom of not carrying anything but a phone, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. If I've had a problem with one card stored on the phone just use a different one

And if you had a problem with your phone, you'd have to go without 🙂

Talipesmum · 17/03/2024 08:43

PrimitivePerson · 17/03/2024 00:09

@ZetuianRose I'm just amazed by how unprepared some people are for everyday situations, and how it's somehow someone else's fault when something unplanned happens. Technology genuinely seems to be making people incapable of everyday problem-solving, and leaves them completely up the creek when it fails.

A big interest of mine is hiking in remote areas, and one of the skills you need for that is being able to read a map. Calls to Mountain Rescue have gone through the roof in recent years, because people think you can navigate properly in the middle of nowhere using Google Maps, and promptly get hopelessly lost. That never used to happen

Is carrying a paper map "old-fashioned"? Maybe, but it's 100% dependable.

I’m not sure taking only a phone to Sainsbury’s to pay for a shop is the same mentality as going hiking with no paper map. I do see the point about over reliance on technology (I have found I’ve got less good at knowing driving routes since satnavs have become so ubiquitous).

But it’s all about risk. Worst case scenario if you can’t use your phone to pay in the supermarket is you have to be inconvenienced and re-do the shop. And since the chance of this happening is extremely low, it’s a risk I’m totally happy to take. I may bring my bag with wallet in, I might not. No big deal.

If I’m hiking, I’ll have planned the route on both paper and phone maps. I’ll have appropriate kit (spare food, first aid, whistle, actual compass that I can use, etc,) and I’ll have a charged battery pack for my phone. Cash, card and phone.

Flakydaydreamer · 17/03/2024 08:51

I don’t even use Apple Pay etc and always have card (rarely cash though) but I think it’s perfectly acceptable if someone wants to rely on the former. It’s up to them and 98% of the time I’m sure they won’t have a problem so YABU.

What is unacceptable though is people being rude to retail staff if technology isn’t working and they aren’t able to produce a card, chip and pin or cash etc. That’s the real issue not whether people choose to carry cards or not.

And btw it’s very easy for some people to forget PINs just like any security codes. If I’m stressed out I can just all of a sudden forget PINs I’ve known and had for ages. Sometimes I’ll remember it again when the stress has passed, sometimes not.

IamnotSethRogan · 17/03/2024 08:55

What happened in sainsburys was a bit of a one off. In mine they had someone on the door telling people who came in. I didn't have my card on me so just went to another shop. It wasn't a drama.

I don't carry my cards because it's all on my phone and yes on this one occasion it was mildly inconvenient but it's hardly a regular occurrence. I don't carry a hand bag or wallet, just keys and phone and it makes life generally much simpler.

I'm not carrying round everything I might need ever in case of some random event happening.

aodirjjd · 17/03/2024 08:58

PrimitivePerson · 17/03/2024 00:09

@ZetuianRose I'm just amazed by how unprepared some people are for everyday situations, and how it's somehow someone else's fault when something unplanned happens. Technology genuinely seems to be making people incapable of everyday problem-solving, and leaves them completely up the creek when it fails.

A big interest of mine is hiking in remote areas, and one of the skills you need for that is being able to read a map. Calls to Mountain Rescue have gone through the roof in recent years, because people think you can navigate properly in the middle of nowhere using Google Maps, and promptly get hopelessly lost. That never used to happen

Is carrying a paper map "old-fashioned"? Maybe, but it's 100% dependable.

People have been calling mountain rescue because they have no maps/inadequate maps ever since mobiles existed. And before then people were calling mountain rescue panicked because their relative had gone out without a map and not come home. Not a recent thing.

personally I use OS maps offline maps on my phone . I have the paper map with me and a compass but the phone version is so much easier for me to follow.

karriecreamer · 17/03/2024 09:06

Grimchmas · 17/03/2024 08:41

I can believe that figure of how much more it costs to live without a bank account. Every company who wants a DD charges £5+ per paper bill, and as you say their worst deals are for those who can't or won't DD. It's like tokens for the gas/electric meters cost a lot more per KwH than paying by DD would. Poverty tax (although I appreciate opening a bank account is free).

Bank accounts have been pretty mainstream for 40 years! I can just about understand people in their 90s not having a bank account as they'd be in their 50s in the 1980s. But anyone younger must have been living under a rock. Credit/debit cards were pretty commonplace in the 80s. I started work in 1983 and was never paid cash - bank accounts were the norm back then. I had an an active bank account in my teenage years in the 70s!

Telephone banking came in during the early 1990s. Internet banking has been with us for over 20 years!

My point is that bank accounts are nothing new, nor are credit cards, nor is internet banking etc. My mother had a credit card from around the late 70s and she was born in 1924, so she'd have got it when she was in her mid to late 50s and was using internet banking, multiple cards, multiple accounts when she died in her 90s!

I just find is very strange that there are people in their 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s who don't have bank accounts, don't have cards, etc. They were in the prime of their working/active lives in the 80s and 90s when there was a seismic shift from cash to bank (wages, benefits, direct debits, etc.).

I'm sure some people don't move with the times just because they're awkward. Like the client I have who proudly claims she "doesn't do internet" and insists on us writing letters to her instead of pinging an email or text meaning more work and cost for us - she's only in her 50s - I put a stop to that when I noticed her posting on a local Facebook group. Funny how when challenged, she suddenly decided that she did have email and a smart phone after all!!

Yes, I appreciate some will have disabilities etc to make it harder. My MIL "liked" to use cash for shopping, etc., but everything else was paid directly into her bank accounts and paid out by standing order, direct debits, etc. She only used cash out of habit. She's got dementia and getting worse, and the amount of cash she was losing was ridiculous - she'd draw out a couple of hundred on a Monday and have an empty purse by Wednesday despite not going anywhere - she was either hiding it and forgetting where it was, or losing it etc. Though when we went shopping with her, we did notice she didn't seem to understand the "value" of it, and would try to use, say, a ten pound note to buy a newspaper for 70p, so I suspect she may have been getting ripped off by shop assistants! She couldn't work out that a coin was worth less than a flimsy piece of paper!! We transitioned her over to using a simple debit card (low balance) over a few months (yes it took a long time due to her dementia), but now she's forgotten what cash is and just gets her card out whatever she buys. It's much better as she's nothing to lose anymore and the bank statement shows a record of what she's bought and how much she's spent, so easier for us to keep track of her spending. OH has the app downloaded so we get "pinged" whenever she uses it, which has been helpful as she sometimes takes it on herself to go out on her own and inevitably occasionally gets lost, so when we get a ping from somewhere strange, we know where she is and can go and get her if it's somewhere outlandish out of her immediate area! I think card can be better than cash in some scenarios to prevent theft/loss for dementia sufferers and elderly who struggle.

karriecreamer · 17/03/2024 09:10

aodirjjd · 17/03/2024 08:58

People have been calling mountain rescue because they have no maps/inadequate maps ever since mobiles existed. And before then people were calling mountain rescue panicked because their relative had gone out without a map and not come home. Not a recent thing.

personally I use OS maps offline maps on my phone . I have the paper map with me and a compass but the phone version is so much easier for me to follow.

I think the point was that people with ONLY a mobile phone just ASSUMED they'd get a signal and that their battery wouldn't go flat, etc. I.e. no contingency Plan B in case the online map wasn't available for whatever reason.

At least people in the past who'd not go out with a paper map knew they didn't have a map so hopefully would have made wiser choices as to remembering how to get back, etc., whereas someone relying on a map (paper or online) is going to take more risks because they think they've got the means of getting themselves out of trouble.

It's a bit like those relying on a mobile signal for an online train or plane ticket and then holding up the queue when they can't get a signal or their phone batter goes flat. I always have a paper printout of online tickets, for travel, attractions, events, etc., so I've "something" to show/scan if Plan A (online) doesn't work.

Fail to prepare and you should prepare to fail!

Allfur · 17/03/2024 09:13

Do the card carriers, print off train tickets too?

BobnLen · 17/03/2024 09:14

Grimchmas · 17/03/2024 08:41

I can believe that figure of how much more it costs to live without a bank account. Every company who wants a DD charges £5+ per paper bill, and as you say their worst deals are for those who can't or won't DD. It's like tokens for the gas/electric meters cost a lot more per KwH than paying by DD would. Poverty tax (although I appreciate opening a bank account is free).

The stories of utility companies taking thousands on DDs have probably put some off giving their bank details, BG have stuffed up our bill but fortunately we can afford it for them to suddenly take a large amount out of our bank account which they invariably will.

PrimitivePerson · 17/03/2024 09:15

@karriecreamer Exactly. It's now really common for event tickets and stuff to come on a mobile app that only works with an internet connection. I regularly work during events at a stadium with 60,000 capacity, and as soon as it fills up the internet drops out in the whole area, leaving loads of people in a state of blind panic unable to access the venue.

Technology often craps out at inopportune moments and if you assume it's always going to work, you'll come unstuck sooner or later.

PrimitivePerson · 17/03/2024 09:16

Allfur · 17/03/2024 09:13

Do the card carriers, print off train tickets too?

I still use paper train tickets, yes.

Allfur · 17/03/2024 09:17

Karriecreanee, that's never happened to me, but similar to not going out in a car with no petrol, I wouldn't rock up at an airport with low battery, a place where there are numerous charging points anyway.

NooNakedJacuzziness · 17/03/2024 09:31

I had lunch in a cafe yesterday. When I came to pay they couldn't accept card payments because their machine had gone down. I had £20 cash and luckily it came to just under £20 but what if I hadn't had cash? They didn't warn me before we'd eaten (maybe it hadn't gone down then) so what would've happened I wonder, do they trust you to go to a cash point and come back and pay?

NoWordForFluffy · 17/03/2024 09:34

Grimchmas · 17/03/2024 08:32

"Times change and technology moves on. Cards are old fashioned. It's another thing to find a pocket for"

"Because why carry two things (card & phone) when you can simply carry one (phone)."

Cards are thought of as old-fashioned?! I suddenly feel a) quite old and b) grateful for having been raised by quite old parents, who used to always take a cheque book as a back up, and currently always take cash as well as cards (they don't use smart phones). With a dash of c) somehow becoming a person who tries to generally always be prepared. Heck, I have to work hard to keep my handbag contents few enough to fit in a small/medium handbag, if I take my large one I can probably live out of the contents of it for 3 days 😅

A bank card is flipping tiny, light, and fits in your phone case. Same with a folded up £20 note. Both are tiny almost effortless things you can do to have a back up if you can't pay with your phone for any reason don't any of you ever get a dead battery??

No dead battery as I'm prepared and take a battery pack if I'm going out for long enough to be concerned it won't last.

The only time I'll definitely have my cards with me is when I work in the office, in case Apple Pay doesn't work at the station. I don't fancy walking the 2 miles home and then back again if that happens!

I tend to pay with a gift card in Sainsbury's as I get 5% off through work. Goodness knows if that would've worked yesterday!

Allfur · 17/03/2024 09:36

Grimchmas · 17/03/2024 08:43

And if you had a problem with your phone, you'd have to go without 🙂

That hasn't happened yet, its a risk I'm willing to take, I'm sure mechanical failure of some kind has happened at least once to most car drivers

Allfur · 17/03/2024 09:37

I walk and cycle alot, and love map apps

aodirjjd · 17/03/2024 09:40

I used to always take my wallet and phone out with me but I’ve slowly stopped taking my wallet. Your phone/watch doesn’t need an internet connection to use the card and I’ve not had a phone randomly crap out on me in about ten years.

It just feels now that it’s unnecessary and one extra thing to potentially get stolen/lost so why take it out with me if I don’t need it?

like someone else said though it’s a balance between risks and backups. If I was going abroad I’d take a backup but not sainsburys . To compare with map thing earlier it would be like taking an OS map with me on a walk to a friends house when I’ve got google maps.

ZetuianRose · 17/03/2024 09:42

aodirjjd · 17/03/2024 08:58

People have been calling mountain rescue because they have no maps/inadequate maps ever since mobiles existed. And before then people were calling mountain rescue panicked because their relative had gone out without a map and not come home. Not a recent thing.

personally I use OS maps offline maps on my phone . I have the paper map with me and a compass but the phone version is so much easier for me to follow.

Yep, offline maps are where it’s at. I use these in countries where I won’t have data roaming. They are brilliant as you still have GPS signal as that doesn’t require any data so you can still see where you are and what direction you are heading. That would also work up a mountain etc.

E-tickets also don’t need a connection once you’ve actually downloaded them to your phone as a PDF or to your wallet. Only a problem if you haven’t already done that and you’re relying on having to load the email when you get there.

BobnLen · 17/03/2024 09:43

The thing with technology is it relies on an infrastructure that isn't very good, I'm on a caravan site at the moment and the 4g/5g is really bad at certain times of the day. It's often worse in busy places because of everyone using it.

Allfur · 17/03/2024 09:44

If technology makes my life easier I'm using it, one day I'd like a digital front door lock

PrimitivePerson · 17/03/2024 09:54

Allfur · 17/03/2024 09:44

If technology makes my life easier I'm using it, one day I'd like a digital front door lock

When someone hacks it, walks in and steals all your stuff, don't say I didn't warn you.

BobnLen · 17/03/2024 09:56

I wouldn't get a digital door lock, it might be about as secure as a keyless car - not very

PrimitivePerson · 17/03/2024 09:56

ZetuianRose · 17/03/2024 09:42

Yep, offline maps are where it’s at. I use these in countries where I won’t have data roaming. They are brilliant as you still have GPS signal as that doesn’t require any data so you can still see where you are and what direction you are heading. That would also work up a mountain etc.

E-tickets also don’t need a connection once you’ve actually downloaded them to your phone as a PDF or to your wallet. Only a problem if you haven’t already done that and you’re relying on having to load the email when you get there.

Many ticketing systems, such as Ticketmaster, are app-based and use dynamic bar codes. These require a constant internet connection. I've seen hordes of angry people who have paid a fortune for tickets denied access to events because they can't get a signal.

KimberleyClark · 17/03/2024 09:57

PrimitivePerson · 17/03/2024 09:16

I still use paper train tickets, yes.

So do I, though have my railcard on my phone.

aodirjjd · 17/03/2024 09:57

PrimitivePerson · 17/03/2024 09:54

When someone hacks it, walks in and steals all your stuff, don't say I didn't warn you.

Differentvbut just as possible to steal your physical keys or break a window