To not understand the Hull funeral directors story?

[GameOfJones]

I've just seen an update to the news story and it sounds absolutely terrible.

35 bodies now identified at the funeral directors, some of whom have relatives that believed they had already been cremated and had been given their ashes. It sounds so upsetting.

What I can't understand is what on Earth was going on? I sort of get they may have been taking the money to cremate bodies then not actually doing so.....but then what the heck were they planning to do with the bodies they had in storage?

Viewing the body before burial is common in my culture and in many cultures around the world. We're not Catholic but many people came to our house to pay their last respects to my dad before the funeral.

*Appallingly there is a black market in human skeletons in Kolkata , India, stolen like in the days of Burke and Hare.

India so say produce the best skeletons for medical schools.*

I remember when l was at school 50 years ago, we had a human skeleton in our biology lab and someone asked our biology teacher if it was real.
She commented that it was/had been 'an Asian gentleman'.
I don't think we appreciated how macabre that was at the time.

I have close family connections in South Wales. And yes, funeral rights are very similar to what I grew up with.

There was an episode of Hamish McBeth where the funeral directors son was running a scam. He'd get families to pay for the most expensive casket, and then cremate them in a much cheaper one. The same casket was resold many many times. He got his comeuppance in the end though.

This real life case is just heartbreaking. Those poor families not mourning who they thought was in their urns. I shouted at the reporter on the news yesterday asking a relative how they were feeling. How do you think they are feeling ffs?!

I’m from Liverpool too, in my 50s and I’ve never seen it either.

Going back to a deceased person spending time at home before being buried or cremated. It can be very comforting to see your loved one arriving at the house and quite often people excitedly say things like mum/dad/granny etc is here now.

I saw both my parents at the Funeral Home and didn't feel that they were there at all. The bodies weren't them. Nothing to do with insensitivity.

I read that if they had two or three funerals in a day, they only sent one body, but that doesn’t explain the casket part. But it would explain, why they had so many bodies still on site.

They could get around the ashes part by sharing one body with three families.

For this to have happened, then and for the funeral service company to have saved money, they must have been in cahoots with the crematorium, who would have been primed not to cremate the empty caskets.

And they would only have paid for one in three
And this explains the bodies left uncremated at the funeral home

Well that’s my assumption, from an article I read somewhere

It's terrible.No respect. Bet they were happy to take the money though.
How did it come to light?

35 separate bodies have been dealt with, for each body I believe there re 3 possible offences, I reckon it is going to be a big number of years or should be..

I just don’t know how they thought they could get away with it? Even if they thought they could eventually pay off enough of their debts and then start to cremate the backlog of bodies, surely they would have to provide the crematorium with paperwork eg a dated death certificate? Would the crematorium not question why they had such an influx of bodies that were months old?

I imagine once they took money fir cremations that didn't happen, after that they were always playing catchup

The crematorium simply wouldn’t have been booked, they wouldn’t have needed to be involved.

What could have happened is the funeral company offers an unattended direct cremation with a memorial service at their premises, which they hold.

After that service the family believe the casket is taken to the crematorium, but it isn’t, hence the bodies still on site.

From the few which are, the families who ask for the ashes to be returned get whichever ashes they do have, which may not be the ones they should’ve received.

Those poor families, it's heartbreaking to think what they're going through.

I read a very compassionate quote earlier from a lady who had some crystal jewellery made from the ashes of her loved one but now unsure if they were the right ashes. She said if it turns out to have been someone else's ashes, she hopes the other family would take comfort knowing the ashes had been treated with love and respect.

If nothing else, hopefully some sort of legislative checks or code will be brought in especially with the rise of direct cremations.

We had ashes in our funeral home up to 20 years old. It always amazed me when the family took so much care over the funeral details, and were so devastated at their loss, but then couldn't be bothered to come back and collect the ashes. We had cupboards full of ashes uncollected and it made me very sad.

On the subject of closing the coffin - in England (in our company at least) - the closing is done right before the coffin is loaded onto the hearse. Always two people involved, wrist tags checked against coffin plate and care document (which accompanied the deceased everywhere). Both individuals have to sign the care document, confirming all final checks have been completed and everything was correct. Then, and only then, can the lid be secured on the coffin.

If nothing else, hopefully some sort of legislative checks or code will be brought in especially with the rise of direct cremations

There are already checks and regulations in place, but it sounds as though this company may have not been regulated. Certainly not audited if they've got away with this for so long.

Always make sure a funeral home is displaying an NAFD certificate in their premises - should be a big sticker in the window or on the door too - or avoid them.

For those talking about folks 'lying in state' at home. Years ago it was the norm in my family. As a small child, I dragged all manner of people including the postman in to see Granda'. We did the same for Grandma, more than 40 years ago but I can't think of a family member being dealt with that way since - they both looked very serene.
A couple of aunts used to prepare the body so there was no problem for the three days in the parlour.
I like to see the deceased before we finally say goodbye. When I don't, it takes longer for their departure to register.

I grew up in Ireland and I know exactly what you are referring to.
The average Irish funeral is a few days after death, well attended, the body on view in the funeral home so that friends and family can see and touch the person who has died.
In general an Irish funeral is a very social occasion, especially if the death is a natural end to a life well lived.
Many funerals in England are weeks after the death, there tends to be only one “service.”
( Ireland has a night at the funeral home, open to the public, the removal from the funeral home and reception into the church and then a church service followed by burial)
UK funeral services are brief and sometimes cremations are carried out with no mourners present.
These are generalisations of course and the deceased person, their friends and family should receive the upmost compassion, dignity and respect in all circumstances.
This scandal is horrific for all the families involved.

I have a friend in the UK who can't come to terms with the fact that I can mention someone dying here (NZ) and I'm off to the funeral a few days later! The funeral director generally registers the death here, so no making appointments required.

@Atethehalloweenchocs no, that doesn’t happen - one body per coffin and one coffin per cremator, and one set of ashes in the cremulator (crusher) at a time. Very very unlikely for that part of the process to be tampered with.

@LeWifi I am so sorry, what a horrible experience for you. Mum had a prepaid plan though the coop and they called us when it was time. They would have delivered, but we did not like the urn choice they gave us, so we bought our own and took it in, they disappeared off for a few minutes and came back with the main urns and 2 smaller ones for the kids.

The worst thing was that the company who I bought the urns from put me on a mailing list and I got frequent and regular emails from them with offers on other urns until I called them and asked them to stop. In retrospect it's quite funny, but it was very distressing at the time.

Thanks @sixthvestibule , it occurred to me that I know nothing about how these things work. I do remember a case in the US where they found lots and lots of decaying bodies which were supposed to have been buried or cremated, but that firm owned their own cremation equipment so it was speculated that they may have been planning to do this. But I did not know if it was physically possible or not.

*But when they'd embalmed and drawn makeup on her like a different person it was scary

I’ve no issue with the bodies of people who have died, and find they actually look quite ‘good’ the following day (the phrase ‘at peace’ comes to mind as a descriptor), but embalmed, nope, nope, nope. I’ve never seen an embalmed body that looks good, it’s always like some weird, empty, soulless waxwork of the person. I kissed one once (goodbye kiss on cheek) and will never forget it.*

My mums death was quite traumatic, and at the end she looked like something out of a horror movie (sorry, but it was awful and upsetting to see). It was such a relief to see her embalmed. It did not look or feel like her, but they had clearly taken such care to clean and tidy her up, and present her looking her best, it was incredibly comforting. I would take waxy over how people can look after an unpeaceful death any day. I was so glad it was my last memory of her, not how she looked at her time of death.

@Zanatdy - my step dad has my mum on a table in the living room by his chair so they can watch tv together. When he dies, his ashes will be buried with hers, and scattered together. They want some to be in my garden, so I have a bit of them always. I am going to put them in a pot with a rose or small tree, so I can take them with me if I move.