To think that Labour have just shot themselves in the foot?

[Redrosetat]

https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1768647056111861760?s=19&t=wqgtbWPG_X1xZDMhuF871A

‘Just now Labour MPs prevented debate on a new law to protect children and single sex spaces.

Instead they used parliamentary time to discuss ferret name choices.

@Keir_Starmer is terrified of debate on safeguarding & his MPs actively work to ignore the concerns of constituents’

I have never heard a black woman say what you are suggesting here but I am not saying it has never happened.

The most racism I see when it comes to these issues is where men who identify as trans women make comments along the line of we are women just like black women are women, that's horribly racist.

However this is detracting from the issues of safeguarding women and children which may or may not be deliberate.

If we agree, and you haven't disagreed with the points i have made on this upthread that it is vulnerable women who are put at harm by the removal of single sex spaces and children are harmed by any policy which doesn't given them therapy if they are distressed about gender issues, then we must agreed that it is appropriate that women talk about these things. The fact that some of the women who do so come from privileged back grounds or are white is neither here nor there.

Well, yes. That would be great. But predatory men won't, will they? So you can legislate until you're blue in the face but achieve nothing.

All women regardless of their ethnicity are safeguarded from single sex spaces for women.

All children, regardless of their ethnicity deserve to be safeguarded from harm if they are struggling with gender issues.

In fact in regards to the first paragraph it is women of minority religious beliefs who are one of the groups most likely to be harmed by the fact that single sex spaces no longer exist and are more likely to self exclude from society.

All politicians who care about women, particularly minority women should seek to redress this issue.

The most racism I see when it comes to these issues is where men who identify as trans women make comments along the line of we are women just like black women are women, that's horribly racist

Absolutely this. They do it all the time and it is sickening.

https://twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1597368163041435648

It doesn’t mean legislation should allow males access as the better option

Why would it be?

Social codes have generally worked and women can call out a predatory male if he is in a space reserved for women. Let TW in to that space and all men are welcome so women cannot call them out and we are much less safe.

But no condemnation of the white women who do it?

Qwhite interesting.

this is why GC and feminist areas are a no go for so many black women.

Maybe you should show me some examples and then I can make a judgement.

Posters seem to be saying they know there’s an issue with males so let’s legislate their access

And that’s before you get to dignity, privacy and fairness

I think on prisons, sports and hospital wards there shouldn't be any dispute at all - if you're genetically XY, you don't belong in a women's prison, a women's sporting competition or a female hospital ward. There's also a legitimate case here for ensuring, probably through DNA, that you belong there, as long as there are strict rules around the disposal and destruction of samples. It's much more complicated in open public spaces like toilets, changing rooms and leisure centres where people can just walk in and out and claim to be anyone - this is where we need to look at the architecture of these places.

But no condemnation of the white women who do it?

At least you agree with me that Willoughby is a man.

We were able to call out males before. We can't now. There are literally posters up telling women not to.

We used to be able to say there's a dodgy bloke in the loo, now if we do that we might be branded transphobic. Look at what happened at the Wi Spa incident where a woman tried to call a man out (the man was later charged with sex offences) and other men were calling the woman a bigot for raising the alarm.

The fact that you are denying the correlation between the two issues is astounding.

Who are these ‘anti trans’ activists? I’ve bit heard of or seen any at all.

We have attempted to tell them on the doorstep (they won’t debate at all) and via letters to MPs (they don’t respond), it’s been attempted in Private members Bill in parliament (they filibustered). As you know, none of these approaches have worked. They are stonewalling any attempt to discuss women and children’s rights. How apt, as they say.

But to go on to the subject matter of this post how does that work when it is the Labour's party intention to make it easier for men to be legal women via the GRC?

They also claim that no amendment to the Equality Act is necessary.

So how can you keep men who have the legal sex of woman out of these spaces without legal recourse from those men with female on their birth certificate? Starmer has said that 0.01 % of women have a penis.

I think you are right that it is harder to draw back on other single sex spaces but the point remains that decent males who respect women will stay out if we say it harms us and it causes some women to opt out of using those spaces altogether. When decent men stay out predators will stand out. When the social norm is that these spaces should be single sex less women will be at risk. I include all men including trans women in this exclusion from women's spaces, because I find it interesting that the only people who are required to be kind and consider the feelings of others are the female ones. If any proof is required that trans women are not female it is the aggression that is shown to women who are speaking about safeguarding concerns.

It's much more complicated in open public spaces like toilets, changing rooms and leisure centres where people can just walk in and out and claim to be anyone - this is where we need to look at the architecture of these places.

This has worked since well, forever. It’s only now that men are destroying this social norm.

That's why we need third spaces. Because transwomen need to have somewhere to go (As indeed do transmen). I'm a little concerned about your sweeping statement about 'dodgy blokes' - because that implies all transwomen can just be spotted for what they are. They can't, and a transwoman who fully 'passes' cannot safely go into a men's toilet either.

Lots of trans women have dismissed 3rd spaces because they don’t validate their assumed identity.

TW do not want third spaces and will label you transphobic if yo suggest such a thing as they are 'real' women.

They can't, and a transwoman who fully 'passes' cannot safely go into a men's toilet either

Sorry but TW just do not pass. In images maybe but not in real life.

Well I'm not sure there is any evidence that trans women are at risk of harm in the men's or that any trans woman truly 'passes' but yes, happy to assist with advocacy for third spaces. The problem is that this is not enough for trans women they want to be validated as women and make some really violent threats towards women who suggest this.

For clarify when I said dodgy blokes I meant men who are acting in a predatory manner. I do not think that trans women are dodgy blokes. But all trans women are men, and statistically trans women are not less likely to be a risk to women than any other man.

Third spaces mean women have single sex spaces so by all means ask TRAs to accept this approach

I suspect that pointythings has no idea what a shitstorm would ensue from the activists if she stated openly that third spaces should be a thing.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

😂

The third spaces could be unisex and anyone could use them. In fact I would be quite happy to use them if there was a shorter queue than in the Ladies.