To think a lot of people without kids don’t understand how free hours work?

[whatkatydid2014]

I’ve seen so many comments on threads about costs of childcare asking what more do people want when they already get x amount free.

Just wondering for some of those posters do you realise the extent to which the way “free” hours are managed is problematic for those working full time.

Imagine you have 20 full time places for 3 year olds at nursery and the cost to operate is £100/day per place for a 10 hour day. Current funding allows £6/hour (it will go up but hasn’t yet) for 30 hours a week and it covers about the equivalent of 2 days a week across a calendar year.

Now imagine 30 kids in total use the places (10 full time, 10 2 days a week, 10 3 days a week). In total you get an income for 100 days/week across all 20 kids

All kids get their 30 hours (2 days) as it’s based on both parents working and earning above a certain amount. Thats 60 days a week you only earn £60/day for.

Over the remaining 40 days you have to get back to your average of £100/day so the rate for the extra days is now £160

So the parent who would previously have paid £500 for a full week now pays £480 for 3 days (basically no saving)

The parent who would previously have paid £200 for 2 days does now have free childcare

The parent who would previously have paid £300 for 3 days now pays £160 so has a saving but not equivalent to 2/3 off their bill.

The bigger the gap between actual cost to run nursery at a profit and the government rate the worse the problem. At the moment, in some cases the gaps are so big & cost of living rises so steep that parents end up paying more when they get the free hours than they were without them.

My kids are already finished nursery and when they went this was a much smaller issue as the funded rates were not so far off the actual costs so I’ve no skin in the game but for all the “what more do you want” people - I think a system where the government is transparent about what people are actually getting AND a fairer way to split the subsidy between part time and full time nursery places

I do think the language of the campaign is very poor. The government are not in a position to call it ‘free hours’ when it’s clearly being implemented differently.

It’s an attempt at a subsidy that doesn’t meet the required financial output to actually subsidise the service.

I don't think people realise that nurseries charge per day, not per hour. This means 15 funded hours doesn't even cover two days. It's only term time too!

Thank you for explaining this. I had no idea. It sounds absurd and misleading. So in effect other parents end up subsidising the “free” hours?

I was explaining this to my parents when we were talking about the upcoming election and how misleading the headline policies are. 30 free hour is so far from the reality it's basically a lie. I wish the media would headline it a bit more..pin down one of the senior Tories on morning radio or Laura Kunesberg. I'd love to see them explain why they've called it "free".

A lot of people with children don't understand how free hours work either.

Calling them "subsidised hours" might help a bit.

Depends on the nursery, mine genuinely did just knock 15/30 hours off how many we used each week. And would calculate the hours to the 15 mins.

It’s yet another unfunded idea. Sounds great if the funds were there to pay nurseries correctly.

Mine calculates 15 hours off, so I get 2 days free.

Do people really put them in 50 hours a week 😳 I don’t know anyone who does.

So I agree that people don’t understand it.

‘30 free hours’ sounds like you get a 60% reduction - at my nursery it’s more like one day a week (so a 20% reduction).

But… re: people in full time paying more for their additional days vs people doing two days getting it all free - not in my experience.

Every nursery in my area offers 15 hours if you do min. 3 days a week and 30 hours a week if you do min. 4 days. There is no option to just use the ‘free hours’.

I think both ‘free hours’ and ‘tax free childcare’ sounds vastly better than they are in reality. Headline grabbing names but not necessarily offering much.

I mean ‘tax free childcare’. Not that I’m even eligible (argh!), but it’s £500 a quarter. I pay more than £500 a week in nursery fees for gods sake.

Agree. Why don’t the government just say ‘we are providing £x per week per child’ and give that to the nursery who can knock that off the parents bill. Rather than this nonsense where you can use 6 hours a day free, but if you can’t collect them for an hour in the middle of the day it will cost you £17 and there’s a £8 per day charge for nappies and wipes and there’s a compulsory Spanish class every Tuesday which is £8.60.

If they’re in full time they assume it’s 50 hours a week - 8-6 opening hours of the nursery.

This is how my nursery operates.

I don’t think many kids are actually there the full day, but that’s what you have to pay for.

Yes, people who work full time to pay bills.

FFS what a stupid comment

They should just offer a voucher for the amount parents are eligible for each week/month (15hr or 30hr) and let the parent have that taken off their nursery fees each week. That would allow parents to use any nursery they want without all the messing about.

The government probably doesn’t want parents to know they offer very different amounts in different areas and that the local council takes money off the top before it is given to the nursery.

Many nurseries are open 9hrs a day and even if you don't need all those hours, you're still charged by the day. So that's 18hrs. I'm going back to work soon and will need to put my DD in nursery 3 times a week. She won't be in nursery 9hrs a day, but I still need to pay this.

I don't have kids but understand this. I know people with young children. But also I think you need to reflect on why you would expect child free people to know this.

I'm self employed and I don't expect people who aren't to have a detailed understanding of how my tax works.

This is obviously how your nursery does it but it is also important to remember that every setting does it differently and that's ok too.

Are you a nursery manager/ owner @whatkatydid2014 or a childminder?

It's not free but funded...the word funded should be used. Was huge shock to me when dd got to that age. It's the government bad use of the word free.

It’s in the OP

”I’ve seen so many comments on threads about costs of childcare asking what more do people want when they already get x amount free.”

The headline offer sounds ok. The reality is not as advertised. That is what they are discussing.

You know people work all year yeah? Well then we need childcare all year too.

I am childless and I agree I do not understand how free hours works but is there a reason I should?

I would also say that after reading your post twice I am no wiser. 🤷‍♀️

Yeah? I get 15 hours free all year for a 2 year old from this April? Don’t pay anything.

Won't it be 15 hours term time only though like the 3-4yo funding is 15 or 30 hours term time only?

There's so much faff to it all. You have to apply via the tax free system to get your code, so why can't the government then just top up your account with the relevant amount that you can then pay your provider with? Why do you have to get a code, fill a form in for the provider, which the provider then has to mess about with calculating hours and headcounts, on a system that takes forever and costs LA staff to run? They just have to complicate everything.

Of course they do 🙈 what did you think full time working parents do?

I realise this is overly simplistic but I just don't get why full time nursery isn't fully funded. You don't pay to send your child to a state school, you shouldn't have to pay to send your child to nursery (which has educational goals just like schools), particularly when we live in a society that necessitates both parents working.

(From a person who doesn't have a child)