To think a lot of people without kids don’t understand how free hours work?

[whatkatydid2014]

I’ve seen so many comments on threads about costs of childcare asking what more do people want when they already get x amount free.

Just wondering for some of those posters do you realise the extent to which the way “free” hours are managed is problematic for those working full time.

Imagine you have 20 full time places for 3 year olds at nursery and the cost to operate is £100/day per place for a 10 hour day. Current funding allows £6/hour (it will go up but hasn’t yet) for 30 hours a week and it covers about the equivalent of 2 days a week across a calendar year.

Now imagine 30 kids in total use the places (10 full time, 10 2 days a week, 10 3 days a week). In total you get an income for 100 days/week across all 20 kids

All kids get their 30 hours (2 days) as it’s based on both parents working and earning above a certain amount. Thats 60 days a week you only earn £60/day for.

Over the remaining 40 days you have to get back to your average of £100/day so the rate for the extra days is now £160

So the parent who would previously have paid £500 for a full week now pays £480 for 3 days (basically no saving)

The parent who would previously have paid £200 for 2 days does now have free childcare

The parent who would previously have paid £300 for 3 days now pays £160 so has a saving but not equivalent to 2/3 off their bill.

The bigger the gap between actual cost to run nursery at a profit and the government rate the worse the problem. At the moment, in some cases the gaps are so big & cost of living rises so steep that parents end up paying more when they get the free hours than they were without them.

My kids are already finished nursery and when they went this was a much smaller issue as the funded rates were not so far off the actual costs so I’ve no skin in the game but for all the “what more do you want” people - I think a system where the government is transparent about what people are actually getting AND a fairer way to split the subsidy between part time and full time nursery places

We are now getting 15h for my eldest under the new scheme for 2yo, and the saving barely covers the increase in fees introduced in March. So I couldn't agree more with OP...

What's shocking about this? mine were in full time nursery 8-6pm Mon-fri, because those were the hrs I worked, DH's hrs were even longer. How else do you think parents cope? you must be very lucky to be moving in circles where none need to do this.

They don’t care, they just see it as someone getting something for free or funded, that they don’t get.

This.

Because thinking that working parents have a spare 1.6k a month per kid to spend on childcare when the average salary in the UK is barely 35k is completely stupid.

Or are you saying that only rich people should have children? I earn 110k+ and can barely make it at the moment because of childcare costs, so the bar would be set pretty high according to your brilliant logic.

Have you given any thoughts about what the UK will become with a dropping birth rate? Ask Japanese if you have any doubts.

I can read thanks I saw that. It doesn't explain why you'd expect them to know. It explains why you might be talking about it. Not why they'd know the details of the policy and it's application.

The lack of transparency is infuriating. We are higher earners so not entitled to the new funded hours (which I have no issue with before anyone @‘s me!), but our fees are already set to increase because the nursery won’t be able to survive otherwise. So we’re going to end up paying more because the government put together this incompetent scheme to try and get votes!

What a great way to make full time working parents feel shit! Bravo!

Yes of course they do. Maybe everyone you know works part time?

Yeah that little emoji did it.

No.

This is really over sensitive, calm down.

Why would people without kids even care? It’s a non issue for them.

What is ridiculous is single disabled parents get no help and support regarding childcare.

if you’re disabled with a working partner, your child/ren would be entitled to the 30 free hours.
yet if you’re disabled and single, your child is only entitled to the 15 hours.

Single disabled parents get punished for not having a partner and their children lose out as a result.

And before people come at me and say that why if you don’t work should you be entitled to the same amount of childcare as working parents, let me tell you. I’m in severe chronic pain that I struggle to leave my home often, which means my child doesn’t get to do the ‘same’ amount of activities as children his age because of my disability. Extra childcare would enable him to be able to have this, and it would also relieve me from parenting to enable to me to relax my body and rest from the pain.

Multiple children in my son’s nursery have parents who are stay at home mums, but because the dad is working; their children are entitled to the 30 hours of nursery. They don’t work because they choose not to, I don’t work because I physically cannot yet because I don’t have a working partner my son has to miss out on the full week of nursery that almost every other child in his class does. Completely ridiculous that I’m being punished because I’m single.

Really?

I think it was pretty clear that poster thought it was 😳 that people would put their children in nursery that long

If I could afford to do it I’d do it in a heartbeat. Successful Mums with good careers should never feel sorry and if they read something like that and take that way there’s some guilt deep down.

they’re amazing in my opinion, I’d love to be able to achieve that.

@orangeleopard both parents need to work for the 30hrs. I'm not saying your situation is unfair, as with your disability you probably need the 30hrs more than a lot of people. But those with a sahm should only be getting 15hrs.

I would imagine they are interested as taxpayers funding the nursery costs through their tax payments.

Both parents need to work to receive 30 hours.

My DC nursery has decided that the way they’ll implement the new 15 hours for 2 year olds is to split them into 3 hours a day Mon-Fri. I’m entitled to the full 15 hours but because my DC aren’t in every day we’ll be getting less than half. They also charge top up fees for my 3 year old so even though he’s in less than 20 hours a week and we’re entitled to 30, we’re still paying roughly 65% of the full fees for him. And the hourly rate has just gone up, as well as the cost of meals, so we’re not really saving anything.

I wouldn’t expect someone without kids to to understand it or to care generally however I would expect if they are going to form opinions on parents saying they are struggling and need help then they would at least find out about it.
Like I wouldn’t think someone should have an understanding of how tax works for self employed people if they aren’t. However I f people were saying they are all tax dodging and it serves them right if they can’t get help (as was seen at various points in the lockdowns) I’d equally assume they didn’t really understand how taxation works for self employed people and that maybe if they did they’d be a bit more sympathetic.
It’s not my area but I am a qualified accountant married to a tax consultant so you can imagine some of our deeply exciting discussions over dinner 😂

I agree. I also found it to be very judgemental about parents working full time

Is that person in the room with you now?

In our nursery you get 15 hours free or 30 hours free, nothing extra to pay unless you go over in which case they charge £5.50 per hour. You have to provide a packed lunch though. They provide 2 snacks per day. Term time only.

I don't really see why the government should pay for 50 hours a week 52 weeks a year. Why bother having a child if you want them brought up by someone else. If people choose to use childcare in that way it's fair that they pay for it themselves

The people I’ve seen complain about it most are parents whose children are older than those whose receive funded hours in a ‘I didn’t receive this and I managed’ ‘I didn’t need this’ ‘why should I pay for this when I struggled’ kind of a way.

Reminds me of a man I worked with whose children were grown and he refused to eat anywhere where children eat free as when his were young he paid full price for his children to eat and he refuses to subsidise other people’s children.