To ask that teacher changes seating arrangements. [TItle edited by MNHQ on request of the OP]

[Usernumber46463746284737383]

Hi all, I’d like to say I’m usually not a parent who rocks up to the school telling the teacher what to do. However, I feel like maybe in this case I will have to.

basically dd 9 is in a class which is pretty challenging in general. There’s a few children with behavioural needs and some with SEN - including my daughter who has Sen herself. They seem to change their seating arrangements every couple months.

anyway, dd used to have a friend who she was pretty close to although I always thought said friend was pretty toxic but when younger a lot went over DD’s head. She would say nasty things and not let dd play with others. I believe she prayed on dd’s vulnerabilities and dd didn’t see the bad in said friend at the time. That was until last year when it all went too far and dd started noticing more and more. Her friend started nit picking about everything with dd, my usually happy confident child was a shell of herself coming home sobbing for hours, she was being bullied. She was being bullied by said friend but it wasn’t the usual stuff, it was more subtle and it was happening outside of school too - they live around the corner. Her ‘friend’ would make fun of her constantly. I won’t go into detail but it was bad. She would also steal DD’s stuff.

dd herself is such a lovely, kind girl, I’m not just saying that because she’s mine but she won an award for her kindness last year, an award only one child in the school receive each year. She’s a great kid, she has her struggles academically and other things but generally she loved school but after the bullying got bad from this one girl she started hating going.

I know the mum but I kept it mostly within school with the teacher who wasn’t very helpful but he encouraged dd to pursue new friendships and she’s got close to a few girls in her class which is great and they regularly have play dates and she’s been a lot happier the last month or so but she’s recently had a MH assessment due to high anxiety levels and a lot of the anxiety comes down to the bully child/ex friend which was picked up on by the lady doing the assessment. the only time I spoke to the mum about is when she approached me saying how her dd is upset as my dd won’t speak to hers anymore - I said you need to speak to your daughter and ask her why that is and left it to that.

anyway, their teacher has sat them together in class and I’m not happy. I mean he knows the girl is a bully so why?! I know someone has to sit next to her however I think she makes a beeline for dd to bully rather than anyone else.

the girl is kicking dd under the table on purpose and distracting dd. Dd is a compliant girl at school and has never had to stay in at break until she’s been sat down next to this girl. I think she’s becoming frustrated and distracted and not getting any work done (she needs help academically as she’s dyslexic and has learning & speech delays). She says the girl purposely flings her hair into her knowing she doesn’t like it (dd has sensory needs), she takes her stuff and chucks it and just nitpicks at dd constantly and makes fun that dd often needs support from a TA and told dd ‘she can’t read properly’. Dd said she picked up the girls pencil for her and she got kicked. She’s also very loud and shouts in her ear. I mean why isn’t the teacher seeing this?! She’s also commented on DD’s appearance a few times. Dd is beautiful, she’s a red head like me and gets called ginger amongst other things like a scar dd has etc.

anyway, sorry this is long. I wanted to moan. This is just a small part of it. It would be too long to talk about everything that’s happened. I’ve kept a log of all incidents though.

shall I demand they are separated? I don’t think the girl is like this with others or maybe she is 🤷‍♀️

These are factual terms, yes?

SEND is the current word for children with additional needs, in an educational setting.

Some kids are indeed naughty.

The poster you are castigating is not saying anything unpleasant?

Have you ever heard of an ABC chart? Used widely in schools. Guess what the B stands for? You are completely clueless.

I can’t believe someone who has an opinion on language does not understand the word behaviour is an accepted term.

This.

It’s an absolute nonsense that these two children have been sat next to each other in these circumstances.

Its also very interesting that there’s outrage at the use of the word demand, but very little criticism of a teacher who has sat a child with SEN next to a pupil he knows has been bullying her.

If the teacher doesn’t move your child asap I wouldn’t hesitate to take it further with the school.

I've asked the teacher exchange dd2 talk partner about half a dozen times of the course of her primary years. I've never been refused and the teachers have been very understanding every time.

Dd2 asked the teacher herself this time around to swap partners and she was obliged.

I don't see what the big deal is with approaching teachers.

Yes, that’s right, people use the word ‘behaviour’ in all sorts of contexts (sometimes they even use it in direct observation charts!)- unfortunately you have missed the point again.

Just because a word is used in one (or several) ways/contexts not mean it is appropriate in all ways/contexts.

Theres also a report called cpoms. All schools use them and try and guess which box I tick for behaviour? It’s actually called behaviour!

You also have no point. You don’t like the use of word behaviour. It’s the word we use. It’s not negative and can also be used for those who are not challenging.

I’ll be honest I’d love to know what term you would use?

Thanks all. I didn’t think that one simple word would cause a stir which wasn’t my intention 🫣 it was just my choice of word was wrong. I’m a pleasant, polite person, honest and have a good working relationship with my children’s schools without me being too over bearing but I will advocate. A few years ago I was someone who was afraid to speak up but with age and now knowing you have to be quite persistent, I will speak up but I’m always pleasant. I’m not a confrontational person and will always be reasonable 😊

the teacher has witnessed dd refusing to go into school every morning for weeks because of this child. She has arrived sobbing and sobbed when she’s come home. They are fully aware!

thanks all from one tired mama just trying to do what’s best for both my children, who both have Sen who often are too scared to speak up themselves, they mask heavily at school and often exhaust themselves in the process as they don’t want to stand out or get in trouble for anything but like I said in OP, since dd has sat next to said child she keeps getting kept in because she hasn’t finished her work or has appeared distracted and dysregulated, she’s usually very compliant at school Never had too many bullying issues with my oldest, my son but parenting a girl seems a whole different world 🫣

I was bullied in primary school, the teacher knew, my mum advocated for me. But the teacher didn't give a shit so it continued.

You need to make clear to the teacher that it is his responsibility to prevent bullying. Find the bullying policy on the school's website. Remind him of it. Go to the next level up if he still doesn't take it seriously. Especially as there is a clear element of disability discrimination. Mention safeguarding.

'Demand' is not too strong a word for a teacher who doesn't take bullying seriously, and I'm sorry about all the other posts picking on that one word. He's setting her up for a lifetime of mental health issues. It won't toughen her up.

@Agapornis I’m sorry you went through that! I don’t get why some kids can be so nasty! DD isn’t perfect but she is so kind but I do believe that makes her more vulnerable at times, I was similar growing up but have grown more of a back bone with age and I will stand up for myself! I just want her to be happy!

The issues have been going on for a while but sitting together is adding fuel to the fire if you get what I mean.

I agree totally, I’ve already seen a slip in her MH, she’s already receiving MH support and the lady she sees is great so I may mention it to her too as she may have more power to talk to the school! 😊

Not all schools use CPOMS, it’s one of a number of record keeping systems.

You don’t know basic information and can’t or won’t grasp my point, and I’m bored with explaining.

All schools in my area do. Waiting for your alternative to the word behaviour. You conveniently seem to have missed that point.

You’ve not explained anything. Your point was I shouldn’t use the word behaviour. I’ve explained exactly when and how it’s used and therefore why I use it. Maybe next time research before you post something so ridiculous.

I do agree though. I’m also bored of explaining the obvious to you. I’m sure you’ve taken some of what I’ve said on board.

@DragonGypsyDoris - if your child was being bullied and assaulted, having her things stolen, and was so stressed she was crying and/or refusing school, and the teacher knew about all of this and still sat your child next to the bully, would you not demand your child was moved? Wouldn’t your distressed child’s needs matter more to you than the classroom dynamics?

an update because I went to vent - emailed teacher (I middle my words verbally so thought I’d email to start with). I got a reply to say they’d speak to both of them - I mean why? This is not on dd.

she wasn’t moved seats but it’s since led to dd faking sickness to refuse to go school… 😴 I’ve emailed again and kept her off to prove a point! It might not be the right thing but they might actually listen. She had good attendance otherwise…

Schools are currently measured on attendance and not on mental wellbeing. So absolutely the way to get the teacher's attention is by keeping DD off school. They are more likely to want to work with you when the impact is on the school's attendance record (government are zooming in on it at the minute). However DD just being 'unhappy/anxious' isn't something they are measured on so where's the incentive to do something about it? Obviously apart from the fact it's hugely detrimental to a young child's life but that's not the school's concern (it bloody should be though).

Perhaps once your DD's attendance falls below a certain level the head will contact you and try and resolve getting her back into class. The solution is to change the seating plan and keep her off until that happens. It's an easy fix to a hugely difficult issue your DD is facing.

Email HT and Director of Ed/HT’s boss.

Time to escalate and stop playing nice.

Signed,

Furious former middle manager, Scottish secondary school.

You aren’t keeping her off to prove a point-

you are unable to send her to school because she is being bullied and they are refusing to even try and protect her.

That is what I would be telling the head, and the governors in a formal complaint.

I think you need to go in and speak face to face, explain the issues and explain if dd would find that stressful. Talk about meeting her needs as someone with ND. Make it clear if she can’t go to school to anxiety around bullying, you won’t be bringing her to school. If she’s not got support at school in place for ND, get that in place too as it’s needs led so it can be done asap and part of that is looking at how she copes in class and what makes kf
easier for her to manage.

Go and speak to them face to face.

I teach year 5 and often make seating changes in the classroom to minimise issues between children as you have described.

Sometimes, I'm aware of it myself and so just move them; sometimes, children ask to move so I move them; sometimes parents ask so I move them.

That's obviously an overly simplistic explanation of what happens and where there are specific issues with a child, those are managed on an individual basis.

I got a reply to say they’d speak to both of them - I mean why? This is not on dd.

I would say though that this is an appropriate course of action and might well inform a seating change anyway. It's right that the teacher would speak to them both to get both sides of the story and work out what to do best to support both children.

Don't assume that speaking to both of them means that they will be held equally responsible. Don't assume the nature of the conversation will be the same. Don't assume they will be spoken to together.

@Usernumber46463746284737383
I'm a Primary School teacher & you're definitely not being unreasonable to ask that they move this girl away from your daughter! I can't believe her teacher has put them together, knowing the history. Don't get me wrong, you'd be surprised how tricky it is to come up with a workable seating plan for 30 kids, with many factors to consider, but this issue should definitely be a priority.

If I were you, I'd ask for a meeting with the year group staff to discuss the situation - it's in everyone's best interests to do all they can to ensure that your daughter continues to attend school & is safe/happy while she's there.

Continue to keep a record of everything that has happened & ask specifically what the school are going to do to deal with the bullying....because from what you've said, that's what it is...& I don't use that word lightly.

If nothing changes/gets worse, then you may need to escalate to the Head/Governors. Don't worry about being 'one of those parents' etc - you're doing what's right for your child & you need to stand firm.

No idea why you've got such a hard time over the word demand.

What is the teacher doing that they haven't noticed this kid bullying yours? I would be asking strongly that she is moved immediately - there's no reason why your dd has to be sat next to the child that's bullying her.

I agree completely, @Dontforgetthesalamander - I think that, in this situation, the word 'demand' is the correct one. The teacher knows about the bullying, and all the problems and distress it has caused her dd - the OP has told them - but the teacher has chosen to sit the child next to her bully.

In these circumstances, I fail to see why the word 'demand' is not entirely appropriate!

Just to add: if you do go in for a meeting, OP, do not go in alone. Have a family member or neighbour there to support you (and bear witness).

And this is why you should have demanded or at least been far more assertive.

You know the teacher is being too passive or lazy about bullying in his class, so why are you emailing him? It is the school's responsibility to deal effectively with bullying, so go to the person with clout in the school! Go to the head. What are you waiting for? Keeping your child off school "to make a point" won't solve anything - in fact it just makes the class teacher's life easier and disrupts your DD's education. Sorry OP but I think you are being a wimp really. You should be demanding that the bullying stops.

Agree OP that you've given the teacher enough chances to deal with this, time to go to the head and say you won't be sending DD in until she's safe from this bully. Until the school can safeguard her appropriately, including moving her away from this girl, you are unwilling to force her in and deepen her mental health challenges.