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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask that teacher changes seating arrangements. [TItle edited by MNHQ on request of the OP]

103 replies

Usernumber46463746284737383 · 09/03/2024 19:01

Hi all, I’d like to say I’m usually not a parent who rocks up to the school telling the teacher what to do. However, I feel like maybe in this case I will have to.

basically dd 9 is in a class which is pretty challenging in general. There’s a few children with behavioural needs and some with SEN - including my daughter who has Sen herself. They seem to change their seating arrangements every couple months.

anyway, dd used to have a friend who she was pretty close to although I always thought said friend was pretty toxic but when younger a lot went over DD’s head. She would say nasty things and not let dd play with others. I believe she prayed on dd’s vulnerabilities and dd didn’t see the bad in said friend at the time. That was until last year when it all went too far and dd started noticing more and more. Her friend started nit picking about everything with dd, my usually happy confident child was a shell of herself coming home sobbing for hours, she was being bullied. She was being bullied by said friend but it wasn’t the usual stuff, it was more subtle and it was happening outside of school too - they live around the corner. Her ‘friend’ would make fun of her constantly. I won’t go into detail but it was bad. She would also steal DD’s stuff.

dd herself is such a lovely, kind girl, I’m not just saying that because she’s mine but she won an award for her kindness last year, an award only one child in the school receive each year. She’s a great kid, she has her struggles academically and other things but generally she loved school but after the bullying got bad from this one girl she started hating going.

I know the mum but I kept it mostly within school with the teacher who wasn’t very helpful but he encouraged dd to pursue new friendships and she’s got close to a few girls in her class which is great and they regularly have play dates and she’s been a lot happier the last month or so but she’s recently had a MH assessment due to high anxiety levels and a lot of the anxiety comes down to the bully child/ex friend which was picked up on by the lady doing the assessment. the only time I spoke to the mum about is when she approached me saying how her dd is upset as my dd won’t speak to hers anymore - I said you need to speak to your daughter and ask her why that is and left it to that.

anyway, their teacher has sat them together in class and I’m not happy. I mean he knows the girl is a bully so why?! I know someone has to sit next to her however I think she makes a beeline for dd to bully rather than anyone else.

the girl is kicking dd under the table on purpose and distracting dd. Dd is a compliant girl at school and has never had to stay in at break until she’s been sat down next to this girl. I think she’s becoming frustrated and distracted and not getting any work done (she needs help academically as she’s dyslexic and has learning & speech delays). She says the girl purposely flings her hair into her knowing she doesn’t like it (dd has sensory needs), she takes her stuff and chucks it and just nitpicks at dd constantly and makes fun that dd often needs support from a TA and told dd ‘she can’t read properly’. Dd said she picked up the girls pencil for her and she got kicked. She’s also very loud and shouts in her ear. I mean why isn’t the teacher seeing this?! She’s also commented on DD’s appearance a few times. Dd is beautiful, she’s a red head like me and gets called ginger amongst other things like a scar dd has etc.

anyway, sorry this is long. I wanted to moan. This is just a small part of it. It would be too long to talk about everything that’s happened. I’ve kept a log of all incidents though.

shall I demand they are separated? I don’t think the girl is like this with others or maybe she is 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
Verdiencrew · 09/03/2024 20:19

WonderingWanda · 09/03/2024 20:04

You could just try asking first. Let the teacher know dd is unhappy, that's usually enough in my experience as a parent and certainly enough as a teacher. No need for all guns blazing demands at this point ffs, the teacher isn't a bloody mind reader!!!

The teacher doesn’t need to be a mind reader- the bullying has already been brought to the attention of the school.

Cantalever · 09/03/2024 20:58

This isn't about seating. Your child is being bullied, and the school have to do something about it. Have you been to the headteacher? It sounds as though the class teacher is not stepping up enough to deal with a serious issue. Seriously, I would kick up a big fuss until this is addressed properly. Your poor DD is being let down badly. If the headteacher does not act to stop the bullying, go to the governors - who cares about being 'that' mother - your DD needs you to stand up for her.

Noseybookworm · 09/03/2024 21:02

You're getting a lot of stick for using the wrong word OP but I totally get your frustration and upset! I would definitely speak to the teacher and explain the effect this child is having on your DD. Any reasonable teacher would move her in the circumstances.

Fossie · 09/03/2024 21:12

I think you need to speak to head of year. This issue would arise in any lesson they were sat together. You shouldn’t have to police this. Ask the head of year to keep the students apart on any seating plan. Once that has happened, refer to head of year if there are further problems.

Fossie · 09/03/2024 21:13

By this I mean the head of year will put a message out to all teachers.

ChaosAndCrumbs · 09/03/2024 21:15

To teachers talking about parental requests negatively - we have to advocate for them, we’re their parent. I’ve huge respect for teachers, but I’ve also got to balance that with being a mum as has every other mum.

@Usernumber46463746284737383 Definitely ask for a change of seating. Parenting SEN children means you do end up having to ask the school for certain things and making sure your child feels safe enough to attend school. Nipping it in the bud early is a far better idea than allowing it to escalate to a point your dd feels unable to go in. Don’t feel bad about it. I spent far too long worrying what the school would think about this and that before approaching them, but when I did, they were actually really good.

AgnesXNitt · 09/03/2024 21:25

For my NT children I would ask, for my SEN child I would demand.

TealSapphire · 09/03/2024 21:28

You shouldn't have to wade into this OP as the teacher should be well aware, both through your emails and their observations.

But since they are not it is definitely OK to ask - or demand - that your child's bully not be allowed near them.

PastTheGin · 09/03/2024 21:29

I don’t know what is wrong with people tonight, OP!
Sitting them both together was a stupid idea by the teacher (I am one, we do have stupid ideas every now and then!), and demanding / requesting / asking for them to be separated is entirely reasonable.

SemperIdem · 09/03/2024 21:40

Your daughter sounds so much like mine, in personality. They’re a similar age too. She had a similar “friend” to your daughter too. It made me so sad reading your daughters experience. I quietly and nicely but very determinedly engineered drifting apart in my daughters scenario, I’ve no doubt the same issue could have arisen and still might in the future.

I completely understand what you meant by “demand” and why people are focusing on that solely, rather than the fact your daughter is being bullied is a bit off really.

Speaking to the teacher is really important, as you know. It’s highly unlikely they will refuse a little reshuffle. They happen often in my daughters class, always have done. There’s a child with very challenging behaviour in the class and it seems there’s only so much any child they’re sat next to can take before their parents go to the school. No diagnosed additional needs and the child is liked/included at playtime etc, they’re just a lot to contend with in the classroom setting.

RickyGervaislovesdogs · 09/03/2024 21:43

BeaRF75 · 09/03/2024 19:04

You don't "demand" anything of a professional trying to do their job, for goodness sake.

You do if your child is being kicked and mocked surely? Or would you say and do nothing?

The teacher has purposely sat a compliant child next to a bully.

Whippetlovely · 09/03/2024 21:51

Yes please speak to the teacher and ask for her to be moved. I had this when my dd was in yr6. She was having issues with one girl who was spiteful and called her fat. (This sadly triggered her to have an eating disorder.) My child like yours didn’t say any thing to the teacher was suffering in silence. It was weeks later when I had realised the extent of her illness and she told me what had caused her to stop eating. The teacher had moved them apart after I had asked. A few weeks later though she was put back on the same table next to her. I did demand she be moved away from this girl. The teacher tried to explain the other girl was having her own issues. Quite bluntly I said I could care less about this child’s issues my child is now sick because of her comments, said child is a nasty bitch and I don’t want her anywhere near my daughter. They were moved apart. When you see your child breaking their heart and then making themselves seriously ill because of a vile child you damn well do demand!! Op I hope you child makes some nice friends and is able to have a happy school life as they spend so much time there. The thought of them not wanting to go in is horrible.

Shiveringinthecountry · 09/03/2024 21:52

Goldenmemories · 09/03/2024 19:05

I'm a teacher and I'd very more likely to help you if you politely asked.

So if you don't like the parent's approach to you then you won't help a child who needs help? Wow...

ASighMadeOfStone · 09/03/2024 22:51

Wecomeone · 09/03/2024 20:04

I've had two parents in the last week 'demanding' I change the seating plan.
It is already a logistical nightmare making a seating plan - it takes around half an hour per class now! The SEND kids need to sit near the board, then naughty kids need to be separated from each other, then other kids can't be sat near eachother for pastoral reasons. Another kid needs to sit by the door because of anxiety. Another needs to sit away from the window because of sensory issues. Another needs to sit at the back because they don't like people staring at them. Add in parental 'requests' and it's damn impossible!

The "SEND kids" and the "naughty kids"....?

If that is how you refer to, and think of, the children in your care, then I'd suggest some retraining on appropriate language might be in order.

Sometimeswinning · 09/03/2024 23:07

ASighMadeOfStone · 09/03/2024 22:51

The "SEND kids" and the "naughty kids"....?

If that is how you refer to, and think of, the children in your care, then I'd suggest some retraining on appropriate language might be in order.

It’s pretty black and white like that. These classes are really difficult to teach. You have to ensure Sen children are keeping up and not being left behind because then you get the behaviour. You then have kids who are naughty and constantly stop a class. No SEN just an inability to think beyond their own needs. You then have children who want and can learn but have to put up with a lesson starting and stopping constantly.

Complaints for the use of language is for those fortunate enough to be clueless about this type of classroom.

Wecomeone · 09/03/2024 23:08

@ASighMadeOfStone oh give over. SEND is the official term, I've had plenty of training thank you. So i don't understand what the problem is?
Fair enough on the 'naughty kids' but how else can I refer to them...they are naughty!

WearyAuldWumman · 09/03/2024 23:13

Secondary school teacher here.

Send an email asking that your daughter be moved at once. Make it plain that the request is because of incessant bullying. If the move doesn't happen, escalate to the teacher's line manager: forward the email and ask the line manager to facilitate.

Seating requests can be a nightmare to manage, as another poster has said, but this one is of the utmost importance.

Verdiencrew · 09/03/2024 23:19

Sometimeswinning · 09/03/2024 23:07

It’s pretty black and white like that. These classes are really difficult to teach. You have to ensure Sen children are keeping up and not being left behind because then you get the behaviour. You then have kids who are naughty and constantly stop a class. No SEN just an inability to think beyond their own needs. You then have children who want and can learn but have to put up with a lesson starting and stopping constantly.

Complaints for the use of language is for those fortunate enough to be clueless about this type of classroom.

Complaints for the use of language is for those fortunate enough to be clueless about this type of classroom.

They really, really aren’t.

because then you get the behaviour.

What behaviour would that be?

Testina · 09/03/2024 23:21

Can’t believe you’re getting so much stick about “demand”!
I didn’t take that to mean “go in and shout the odds and stamp your feet impolitely” but “go in and explain politely and request, but not drop if it’s a no.”
Frankly, I’m surprised you haven’t already!
Do it.
I won’t even add “politely” cos you’re clearly not a dick 😉

wellington77 · 09/03/2024 23:22

As a teacher, I definitely would encourage you to ask for the seating plan to change, any decent teacher wouldn’t want this to stay as it is. If the teacher has an issue mention the anxiety but also definitely write an email to the head teacher too. Seating plans are very easily changed , I change mine all the time and I think you have more than a good enough reason to do so. Any issues- go to the top! Teachers like quiet lives ( including me, so if they don’t listen the first time they will when a head or governor gets involved) also you shouldn’t feel rude to ask, you have every right

Limesodaagain · 09/03/2024 23:26

WearyAuldWumman · 09/03/2024 23:13

Secondary school teacher here.

Send an email asking that your daughter be moved at once. Make it plain that the request is because of incessant bullying. If the move doesn't happen, escalate to the teacher's line manager: forward the email and ask the line manager to facilitate.

Seating requests can be a nightmare to manage, as another poster has said, but this one is of the utmost importance.

I’m a teacher also. Totally agree. This isn’t about “seating” - it’s about bullying and supporting a child with SEN. If it was my child I would email to explain that the seating must be changed.
It’s not unreasonable in any way to insist your DD is not sat next to someone who is known to bully her . I’m surprised at posters who nitpick about the word “demand” … I’m sure you know not to go in all guns blazing but you’re right to be firm when advocating for your daughter’s well being.

Newbalancebeam · 09/03/2024 23:29

Way too many people here deliberately being obtuse re the use of the word demand 🙄 It’s pretty clear OP is at the end of her tether and trying to do the best by her DD. That said, when one of mine was bullied, restorative justice seemed to be all the rage and their teacher actively made DC and their bully play together in order to forge a friendship. That didn’t work for obvious reasons…

Sometimeswinning · 09/03/2024 23:37

Verdiencrew · 09/03/2024 23:19

Complaints for the use of language is for those fortunate enough to be clueless about this type of classroom.

They really, really aren’t.

because then you get the behaviour.

What behaviour would that be?

There are lots of different types. Challenging, avoidance are the main ones I come across. Usually comes from a feeling of failure and lack of confidence. Challenging can be a chair thrown across the room or checking out completely from a lesson. I could go on. Because I see this every day. Does that help?

Saying really twice doesn’t make it true in your case. I’ll carry on knowing the difference between those who can’t help their reaction and those who are just entitled and don’t often hear the word “no”.

cherish123 · 09/03/2024 23:41

I would request/speak to teacher and explain situation. It might not be possible to move them, although I don't see why not.

Verdiencrew · 09/03/2024 23:46

Sometimeswinning · 09/03/2024 23:37

There are lots of different types. Challenging, avoidance are the main ones I come across. Usually comes from a feeling of failure and lack of confidence. Challenging can be a chair thrown across the room or checking out completely from a lesson. I could go on. Because I see this every day. Does that help?

Saying really twice doesn’t make it true in your case. I’ll carry on knowing the difference between those who can’t help their reaction and those who are just entitled and don’t often hear the word “no”.

I’ll carry on knowing the difference between those who can’t help their reaction and those who are just entitled and don’t often hear the word “no”.

I didn’t make a comment regarding that?

I made a comment about your assertion that language use doesn’t matter (it does), and the implication that you are far too busy and important to bother yourself with it (you aren’t).

So, by the disparaging ’behaviour’ comment you meant that disabled children would display symptoms of their disability. Lovely.