to think the government are on a hiding to nothing with their drive to get people back to work?

[molokoco]

On the Today Programme in Radio 4 this morning they had a segment where they were talking about "worklessness" in the UK and the number of unfilled vacancies and how the government wanted to push two large groups back into the work force the 18-24 year olds who are not working due to mental health issues and the over 50's who have dropped out of work in the past four years for a variety of reasons and who perhaps have the funds not to have to to work anymore.

They had a man on in his early 60's who was made redundant from what sounded like a highly paid business / finance type career in the city 4 years ago, he had initially applied for 100's of jobs over the next few years and was rejected he seemed to suspect due to his age. He work as a postman for a spell before he finally mentally came round to the idea of retirement. Obviously this man had the funds but so do a lot of the people retiring in their 50's either have that or their health is so poor they can no longer work while they wait endlessly for hospital appointments and treatment.

When I try to look at the kind of jobs that have the most vacancies in the UK the information I am seeing is things like hospitality, construction, manufacturing, agriculture workers and so on. It doesn't seem likely to me that someone who was previously in a high flying career but now feels pushed out due to ageism or someone with health issues is likely to want to take a job in any of those areas which likely involve some mix of heavy work, anti-social hours, low pay and a degree of precarity and perhaps not much in the way of long term prospects.

The man on the radio had applied for 100's of jobs within his field of experience and he would have kept working if he had landed one but it seems like well paid, jobs with good career prospects are still over subscribed with lots of people applying for that kind of work so employers will have their pick and ageism in recruitment is a known issue.

They had a Doctor on to discuss the mental health crisis in the young but he wasn't very coherent, he did mention about improving nutrition, exercise and prescribing gardening to people with mental health issues and suggested that when people go on the sick with poor mental health and spend a few weeks at home watching daytime TV then they will feel worse. I am sure he had a point but gardening isn't a substitute to getting proper mental heath treatment, it is part of that sure but I think young people need more than that and that the things that seem to be behind the rise in depression, anxiety and hopelessness need to be addressed more widely. I also think that while younger people in good health may be more able to do the kind of work in hospitality or construction where the vacancies actually are the problems with these jobs still remain that they are often hard, heavy jobs, they can be low paid, antisocial hours and with fewer prospects in the long term.

It is sad to see people, especially young people drop out of the workforce right at the time their lives should be starting or for older people to feel pushed out due to their age or poor health but a few tax breaks isn't going to make an ex-executive or ex-teacher suddenly want to take a job on a building site or as a chambre maid and a few gardening sessions isn't going to make up for the utter lack of mental health care and magically cure young people of their anxiety or despair in a world where a home and a family seem so far out of reach.

Why stop there ? Do we need half the executives we have ?

But there aren’t any till jobs. My local Sainsbury’s is all self-service now and has been for years. I think they have one staff member on a traditional till with a conveyor belt.

I agree with your OP, but also that doctor did have a point Young people not working do actually feel worse after a few weeks of eating rubbish, getting up late and watching tv. Also, they are very prone to self medicate.

@SerendipityJane Thanks

I still think it's a strange reference to make in the context of the current economic situation but it's clearly a popular one and I'm being too literal. My first degree was in history and I frequently look at these references and wonder what people are on.

I do think we need to look at what the hell has gone wrong for so many younger people but it should be done without blaming them. The lack of support for teenage mental health must be a factor, you only get one shot at your formative years and if that's a mess then that's a lot of crap to unravel.

If you can explain how we are all still living in the direct descent of the Roman Empire, I'm all ears. But from this distance - like all others - it fell.

Much like we only have one example of life arising in the universe, we have no examples of any empire surviving. Anywhere. The conclusion is as logical as it is inevitable.

It's clear we are seeing a slow descent into nationalism. Eventually that will lead to a fracturing of alliances, And from there the slow resurrection of the nation state. And the UK - threatening to abrogate international treaties left right and centre is very much a Putinesque poster child for seceding from alliances and the notion of cohesion.

All heavy stuff. But it all feeds into a society where you will struggle to get people to do your bidding. Which is all work really is, when you deconstruct it.

Worth noting that the Roman Empire had it's lowest of the low in slavery. And still fell. Which suggests that even if you forced people to work for nothing, the system will still eventually fail. I have a feeling if I had bothered finishing Das Kapital, Marx was making the same point. I had to content myself with a visit to Highgate and a tour by an exchange student from Texas ....

I was earning £50K a year and had worked hard (too hard) for 30 years - until I was pushed out for being too old, too expensive and being unwilling to say yes to every stupid pointless initiative.

I didn't need to work as we have been careful with money, the mortgage was paid and the children had left home. I lived off savings for two years, slowly recovered from burnout and unexpectedly got a new job is a totally different field. I now earn £20K a year.

I will soon be drawing my pension from my old job - taking it 5 years early and losing 20% as a result. I will keep working for as long as I enjoy it, but I feel no guilt for the two years I didn't work, and I will feel no guilt If I quit working tomorrow.

I have paid taxes and NI all my working life. I have never needed to claim benefits. I have paid in far more than I will get back. I am not a cash cow. There are many millionaires who dodge taxes and far too many millions of people working until they drop. I have two dear friends, both younger than me battling cancer, my joints are aching and I don't want to be reflecting on my life on my death bed regretting the things I didn't do because a job got in the way. I want to travel, enjoy my garden and spend time with my family while I am fit enough to do so.

I don't give a rat's ass if others think that is selfish/ unfair/ unwise. I have one life. I have given enough. It's my time now.

I’ve got a few years until I get the state pension. Been working part time but looks now like my Contract won’t be renewed.
Been looking around but so many jobs are full time.
I've had some health issues and have an elderly mother I support.
So now I’ve worked out I can afford to retire if I want, I’m now considering it.

Perhaps look at claiming carers allowance if you don't already do so and assuming your mum gets a disability benefit ? Just be aware it can affect your mum's payments if she gets pension credit and lives alone though.

the man on the radio said he was probably too expensive to be employed, he lost his job and couldn't get another, that scenario has been the case for years.

people in their 50s in many lines of work are too expensive.
i dont know why he didnt stick with the postman job.

it is very strange that people are ringing their hands over people not working through choice in their 50s, if not claiming sickness benefit or pension.

it sounds like the government are blaming sickness rates on people

Quite. If they were in jobs they'd doubtless be accused of hoarding jobs that ought to be occupied by younger people. Like houses.

I’m a MH nurse. The major issue with MH services in this country is that we can’t fill the vacancies. There was only 23 MH nursing students on my degree course, compared to 200 adult nurses. My trust has hundreds and hundreds of nursing vacancies. The same goes for psychiatrists. Some of the services around here haven’t had a permanent psychiatrist for literally years. It’s not so much money (although we could always do with more funding), rather, no one actually wants to do these jobs. Every time someone on here brings up wanting to retrain as a counsellor I urge them to consider MH nursing, but they don’t want the long shifts (my trust has just increased shift lengths to 14 and a half hours), the risk of being punched, the pain of losing a young person to suicide… so the waiting lists get longer and longer.

Good suggestion, but she refuses- so far- to claim AA and I don’t do the 35 hours needed. I’ve got a small NHS pension I got at 60. It’s tricky.

I honestly think a big part of it is that many don't see the point.

They see that what they get back is less than what their parents got in most cases and just don't see the point.

Plus it's easier to basically step back from responsibility if you can stay home, use social media and tech. There's a whole virtual world to immerse yourself in. You don't necessarily feel you're missing out.

There's always been people who've stepped back from societal expectations. But it's probably even easier to do that today.

I agree totally. My two year break from work cost no one else a single penny. If I give up work again now it will cost no one a penny. At 67 I will finally claim my state pension - that I have paid for.

It is frankly no one else's business. I am not 'part of the problem' as an earlier poster suggested. The only 'loss' will be the taxes that I will no longer pay. I have paid in 1000's over the years - look to the tax dodging non doms and tax dodging companies to pay their way and stop wringing every last penny out of the workers.

I would actually love to be a mental health nurse but I cannot afford to take the time out of work to train. I'm also not sure that UC would allow me to take time out to retrain when I already have professional certifications and a degree.

Yes they need to stop blaming the people in their fifties who have like already worked 35 odd years. If they can afford to support themselves through private pensions , inheritance etc then I don't see what the problem is. They are probably paying less tax than they would be if working but still paying tax on private pensions. They need to be looking at those on long term benefits ( excluding those with illness/ disability and carers) but obviously most of those are probably unemployable. In my job I come across a huge amount of people who just have barely worked at all for many years.

Agree with this. If they see themselves slogging away for years paying high rents to private landlords, it’s like being on a treadmill.

It absolutely is your time. Why should people who worked their entire lifes and paid their dues be guilted into continuing to pick up the slack?

It's like expecting everyone to be the donkey in Animal Farm sent to the glue factory at the end.

@Thepeopleversuswork absolutely agree- why would you take a less senior role if you could afford not to? Experience and experts aren't valued especially if they're over 50. If you've paid your full NI contribution and pension why would you undervalue your worth? This government have virtually made strikes and protests illegal but they are moaning because they didn't understand that the withdrawal of labour will always be the right of the individual- now they're running out of ways to compel people that aren't actually slavery!!!

I've heard a lot of people say they would enjoy working if they saw the fruits of their labour's. There's an incentive. But if you're working to afford a shit flat in a shit area...its not great motivation.

That's a shame , hopefully she comes round to claiming it if she meets the criteria.

It sounds like ageism has come back to bite companies and governments on the butt. On the plus side, older people who do want to return to work may find this is their time!

I suspect the reason they want over 50's back to work is that they have a shortage of unskilled workers and are unable to fill essential roles. However, these roles are primarily roles which are underpaid and undervalued such as care workers and nurses.

If they started paying people a wage that reflected the actual value of the work they'd have a much easier time recruiting people.

I loved care work but as a single mother to a disabled teen who will likely never live independently, I simply cannot afford to work in care. Zero-hours contracts and NMW don't work for my circumstances.