AIBU to ask if you believe that a labour government will go some way to fixing the NHS?

[TabithaTwitchel]

I'm not a labour voter but I could potentially be persuaded for obvious reasons right now

I'd like to believe a new government could do 'something' to stem the rot in the NHS. But I'm not convinced.

Do you think it will help?

The Labour Party improved the NHS by massive increase in the use of PFI. Private investment that was kept off the books, the debt is over £300bn. Not difficult to improve something when you throw money at it now and don't worry about the implications or how it will be paid back,

What do I think Labour will do? When they get in they'll see it's a lot worse than they ever imagined. They won't be able to do anything without raising taxes and that's what they'll do. Tax and spend. MC hard working people and families are screwed. They will tinker around the edges with the NHS, they haven't got the balls to do what's needed.

We’re still paying for the last time anyway via PFI

That won’t happen again

To answer the op probably not

X post. Exactly @makeanddo

Of course they won’t. They’ll say whatever they think the voters want to hear in order to be elected and then do the complete opposite. It’s what every party does, every time. BTW, they won’t get in.

Honestly no. They're likely to spend more money on it but that doesn't mean it will be fixed. The NHS has more money in real terms than it ever has. It's not a question of money it's how it's utilised that's the problem.

I do think that people look back with rose tinted glasses at the NHS in labour era. When I was 9 I started fitting. Was taken to hospital by ambulance and was not even seen by triage in 6 hours - I sat in the main waiting room with drunk men screaming at each other. But which point my parents decided to take me home and took me to a doctor the following morning.

Now that same hospital has a kids a&e. Whenever I've taken my daughter there the max it's taken is 30 mins to see triage and usually within 5 mins and my longest wait in total after that was 3 hours I think. As an adult I think my longest was about 4 and that's cos they lost my intake form and that was a sat night.

My GP in 2009 was useless. Had to call at 8am no call waiting and never got an appt. So ended up just never bothering and paying out a fortune in private fees. My GP now has always got me in the same day when needed with less urgent stuff within 48 hours.

I think our local NHS is now better but recognise this won't be the same everywhere

NHS in Scotland is run into the ground by the SNP. And they will tell you it’s shambolic ‘ because UK government’. But they continue to increase taxes here on the basis of proving the NHS and education, and they have made it worse.

In short, it will take major reform and some harsh conversations with us, the public, to get close to sensible waiting times. And I suspect, a much contracted ‘menu’ of procedures and treatments offered free. No matter which party wins.

I do think that people look back with rose tinted glasses at the NHS in labour era

Have the statistics got rose tinted glasses?

https://assets.kingsfund.org.uk/f/256914/x/be21b1302c/high_performing_summary_nhs_2010.pdf

My worry is as a pp mentioned, that they will increase funding but it just be spent on increasing salaries and not improve the service. It needs huge reform and probably changing to a system more like France of Germany.

Won't they get in? What do you think will happen? People will suddenly realise the Tories are right?

It seems that one in five pensioners are now planning to vote Labour. They’re even losing their core vote.

If we have money why have we had so many strikes by NHS workers that haven't been resolved?

They won't be able to do anything without raising taxes and that's what they'll do. Tax and spend.

Unlike the current government whose policy seems to have been Tax and Give to your Mates.

The Tories have had 14 years in which time absolutely every service is absolutely buggered! Even if Labour do get in it's going to take years to fix all this mess, it's a poisonous chalice!

Yes I do believe that Labour will improve some areas of the NHS but I don't think it will be easy.
Having worked in the NHS for a long time I can remember the time of a labour government. They had much longer term plans that were actually thought through and effective. It wasn't just about more money although funding was more realistic.
The current government haven't had any decent long term plans for change and improvement they are constantly changing the vision and priorities in order to look good rather than any long term thinking about genuine improvement and stability.
The last 14 years have been the worst I've known even removing the last four and the absolute chaos of the pandemic. The management of that at government level was unforgivable

People honestly think the funding model is the root cause of everything....It really isn't. Whether the money comes from state banked insurance, private insurance or straight from the state is largely immaterial (,there's a paper on this). What matters is consistent long term funding (so you can plan ahead and invest/be strategic) aligned to the actual population and it's needs.
What we have actually had over the last 13 years is real term cuts to capital and training budgets (so crumbling buildings, out of date scanners and people still writing up paper notes on wards...oh and not enough Drs and nurses). We've had last minute dobs of cash for hair brained schemes and winter pressures. Which largely can't be spent usefully as it's not planned and one off (but adds to the 'look we throw money at it' narrative). AND spending it's still lower per person (which is the key metric as it's the numbers of people to treat that matter) than many many developed nations. Oh and we have an aging sick nation due to demographics, crap food, housing and shit poorly paid work. We are sicker, fatter and older (at a population level) Ryan many countries that spend far more on health.
Can labour turn this round. Well... Not in a parliament no. Drs and other staff take ages to train, the estates backlog is insane (even if you had the capital investment) and getting people less sick is an enormous incredibly complex issue that would require a complete change in our social attitude and cohesion (unlikely). I think they are very intent on reform and improvements... They'll crack the whip and hopefully invest strategically. They'll need to reform medical training, culture and practice and ideally bring GP's into the NHS which is going to have the BMA screaming blue murder and will likely cost (stuff their mouths with gold again). They are going to have to do something about management and leadership (there are not 'too many managers' as robustly proven by a Kings Fund paper) which is also not a quick fix. And they'll have to do it all whilst dealing with the existing back log and workforce melt down.

But on balance I'd still give them a better chance than this shower of lying incompetent cockwombles who partied whilst NHS staff were getting loved ones to say good bye via iPads...

The NHS will get worse under another Tory government. It might not under a non-Tory one.

No, they won’t get in. Labour are no better than the Tories. The advantage that Labour have right now is they can pretend they will do the ‘right thing’ but they won’t. They don’t even have the funds to do it even if they wanted to. People have to be realistic about what can and can’t happen.

This. It needs a total overhaul and that would be too expensive ATM. When Labour get in they will have no money than the Conservatives had unless they raise taxes or borrow more. DWP department spends too much. Not enough left for everything else. Immigration hotels soak up millions everyday.

Not at all. The NHS is completely broken as are the people who work within it.

Any input and say that used to come from senior consultants has been taken away so they are disengaged. Years ago the medics had more say and knew how to run theatres for example. Bringing in a manager to run theatres who used to be a manager for Asda doesn’t work, as they don’t understand how theatres should work efficiently. Consultant led LLPs are the way to go; in our hospital on a normal hospital led operating list, they do 3/4 operations. On an LLP list where the consultant leads and organises it, they do 8!

To say nothing of said managers having meetings for meetings sake wasting time and resources and not being able to see the bigger picture.

Also Labour run the NHS in Wales-and they are completely fucked with 4 year waits for surgery! And they have more money/head spent which shows it is not all about money being put in.

Immigration hotels soak up millions everyday.

And that’s entirely deliberate. The backlog for processing claims needs to be cleared as a matter of urgency. That’s one of Labour’s first priorities to free up money to improve services.

I dont really understand what is wrong with the NHS so I dont know how to fix.

I feel like there is a massive lack of staff and that they take years to train and that there arent enough people to train them.

Nope

The NHS is beyond help. It is crap and always has been. Since the pandemic it has just got even worse than it was.

People like the idea of The NHS because it is a good idea. However, like a lot of good ideas it simply does not work.

The service it provides is shambolic…. The situation with the lazy GPs has got to the point where even poor people have to go private.

Yes I think they will. However, people have to accept that to have a high standard NHS we need higher taxes, which the British public do not appear to want to do. Look at the Scandi countries as an example. It appears Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor has no plan to raise taxes in any remarkable way but what she has put forward(non dom tax etc) is a start.

@Rachel757677 the NHS has always been crap? I wonder what age you are? I really disagree with you.Had two children in the clean , efficient NHS hospitals, had my life saved in one , have had family and friends lives saved and cared for. I love the NHS ! We should hang our head in shame what we have allowed happen to it!