AIBU to ask if you believe that a labour government will go some way to fixing the NHS?

[TabithaTwitchel]

I'm not a labour voter but I could potentially be persuaded for obvious reasons right now

I'd like to believe a new government could do 'something' to stem the rot in the NHS. But I'm not convinced.

Do you think it will help?

That is because the Tory government have systematically crippled councils through years of overfunding. Tory councils are struggling too.

Labour councils are more at risk of bankruptcy because they have been more negatively impact ed by central government (Tory) cuts and lots of Tory councils are crumbling!! https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/council-cuts-austerity-tories-bankrupt-youth-services-sure-start-school-nurses/

I've never been impressed with Wes Streeting's understanding of how the NHS works. His 'solutions' are simplistic.

Are they? Can you explain why?

No

unless they take the drastic decision to reform the NHS

they won’t make the same mistake as the last Labour government who used high interest finds to seal over the cracks that were already there

No !!

i don’t believe the issue is money. I think we need to start having an honest national discussion about the money that has been put into the NHS over each of the last 20 years and the targets that have been achieved.

I sat for three hours last month in an almost empty hospital waiting room. There was one Consultant working and 5-6 Nurses. The treatment I received was fabulous, but there is no way that Hospital was working at peak efficiency.

The heating was on so high that people were stripping off and opening windows to try and achieve an acceptable working temperature.

Afterwards, I went to try and find my blood tests results. The NHS App told me to check my GP online system. My GP online system told me to look on Patient Knows Best.

This wasn’t an isolated experience. I have experienced quite a few appointments over the last few years that have left me incredulous. Including one where the Consultant apologised and said I shouldn't have been referred to him, but rather to his colleague so they would have to call me back another time (three months later). I have also been held on a ward for an extra 24 hours because there was no one available to write my discharge letter and prescribe the drugs I needed.

The staff I have met are always lovely but there is massive inefficiency and the IT Infrastructure is chaotic. The last Consultant I saw could not access my records through his system, so I sat and logged onto Patient Knows Best on my IPad to show him my most recent test results.

There is no private business out there that could operate in this way without failing and that is what the NHS is doing. It is collapsing under its inefficiency and pouring more money into it will not resolve the infrastructure issues.

There needs to be honest discussions and very joined up thinking about how to resolve the efficiency issues !!

The party that created the NHS under Bevin is what is needed now

I'd suggest the issue there is that what Bevin created and what the NHS has become are very different, as are the public's expectations of it - and those expectations won't be easy to manage now that mortality's become a dirty word and so many expect their loved ones to be supported way beyond their natural lifespan

This is how we've got to the point where the death of a 93 year old is described as "a tragedy", and with a rapidly aging population I'm not sure this attitude's sustainable

No
I don't think any government would be willing to do what is needed to save the NHS.

Actually in many cases it’s due to litigation pushed by the unions.

Seriously? There are no targets targets for either a&e or cancer treatment? I had no idea. Do you know when they were removed? I do remember seeing the target wait time versus actual on a board at our local a&e but I hadn't realised it was so long ago. Now you've pointed it out - that board definitely isn't there now. I've been quite a few time the last few months unfortunately and I do remember looking for it one time just to get an idea of how long the wait might be

Is your question actually “can I continue to vote Tory and blame Labour when I can no longer afford healthcare?”

If Labour throw money at the NHS, yes they can improve it. However, if they do it at the expense of public finances, they will wreck the economy as they did the last time they were in office. Which will lead to another Tory government and cycle of necessary austerity. There is no magic money tree and Labour have a tendancy towards economic illiteracy which benefits nobody in the end because it wrecks growth and living standards.

We need a reset. Health spending can grow at any rate we care to fund and still not be sufficient with more expensive treatments and longer lifespans. While people balk at the idea, private provision of healthcare services combined with "free to use" insurance backed by the state is the only real solution here. It works very well in other countries and is the only future in my opinion for a state backed health system.

Labour have shown they are able to take bold gambles (Bank of England independence was one), I hope they have the courage to do so again.

No I don't think so. I spent 30 years working in the NHS and left in 2018. It was equally bad under conservatives and Labour, although I expect it is particularly bad at the moment. I think the money needed to bring it up to anywhere what it needs to be just isn't there sadly without hugely increasing taxes and then a lot would be wasted as it has been for many years.

Everything I have read suggests the fundamental cause is a policy of underfunding from central government. I'd be interested to read more on litigation though if you have any links.

At least you can be sure that Labour won't try to privatise the NHS, actually believe in it and will be willing to compromise when dealing with strike action by healthcare professionals and will do their best to fund it correctly.

The current useless and corrupt government has no interest in improving or funding the NHS. They only see it as something else to privatise and make money from.

Birmingham city is high profile. As is Nottingham

It's all cyclical, if labour are in power they spend spend spend increasing the national debt, voters get sick of it and Tories get in who then cut cut cut and repay national debt, rinse and repeat. 🫠 at least under labour things get reset and patched up!

No. The only way to help the NHS is to privatise it, whilst keeping it free to use.

Yes, I am in Nottingham and it isn’t looking good….

The litigation that has affected them has been widely reported.

Nope only have to look at Wales. And they should of used that an opportunity to do really great thing s to really show people how better it could be, wasted the opportunity and instead shown us what it will really be like...fucking crap

I worked in the NHS during the Labour years and would agree that things were vastly better than before 1997 but they did implement some policies which when combined with the subsequent Tory austerity are still causing problems today.

https://www.ippr.org/media-office/nhs-hospitals-under-strain-over-80bn-pfi-bill-for-just-13bn-of-actual-investment-finds-ippr#

4 hour waits were often fudged in very inefficient ways. I've been pressured to temporarily admit patients to specialities they didn't need and may not have received the correct specialist care in just because that department had an empty bed and the patients 4 hours in A+E was running out.

The Tories amended targets but didn't not abolish them. Increased waiting times in A+E have happened for many complex reasons which includes increased attendance rates, lack of community care resulting in bed blocking and insufficient staff.

I agree with a PP Bevins NHS was never intended to become today's NHS.

No

The NHS model is burst. It was designed for another time. People just don’t like to have difficult conversations about the NHS as people are massively emotionally invested in it, so it’s a political hot potato.

It’s not fixable.

they will wreck the economy as they did the last time they were in office.

They didn’t wreck the economy. It was damaged by a global financial crisis with its origins in the US.

The main reason that higher tier authorities are struggling financially is that the system for funding social care nationally is completely and utterly broken.

Councils are having to support an ageing population with increasingly complex needs. Due to increased demand and the government’s recent Fair Cost of Care Analysis, some care providers have hiked their prices enormously in a short space of time. This was enough to push many local authorities into the red. Our unitary council now spends almost 2/3 of its budget on social care.

Needless to say, a struggling social care system puts a lot of pressure on the NHS, most obviously through delayed discharges AKA “bed-blocking”.