AIBU to ask if you believe that a labour government will go some way to fixing the NHS?

[TabithaTwitchel]

I'm not a labour voter but I could potentially be persuaded for obvious reasons right now

I'd like to believe a new government could do 'something' to stem the rot in the NHS. But I'm not convinced.

Do you think it will help?

"Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked.
Warren Buffett"

The NHS is not short of money its short of decent managers. There are way too many "suits" roaming around with clipboards and not enough front line staff
That would be a start. My DIL works for them and tells me it's rife with lazy grifters with "jobs for life" who they can't get rid of . Strong management needed to get rid of all the dead wood, and they need to start at the top

Yes. I remember the NHS under the previous (pre 1997) Tory government and it was terrifying: running out of anaesthetic in major central London teaching hospital, the cries of patients on trolleys lining the corridors...

It improved drastically under Labour. As did child poverty, homelessness and other social ills.

(I've never voted Labour myself, but certainly would choose them over Conservative government if I lived somewhere where voting tactically could make a difference.)

If Labour’s approach is to throw ever more enormous sums of money at the NHS while ignoring the organisational dysfunction & massive inefficiencies it won’t improve and the money will be wasted.

If they are serious about structural reform and about learning from other countries which have better universal healthcare systems than we do, it might improve. But, in order to do so, they will have to be prepared for a massive fight with the unions & other vested interests who will inevitably squeal about ‘privatisation’ at the mention of anything changing or of patients being given a real choice.

…being basically every developed country in the world, regardless of whether their then-current government was left wing or right wing…

No. It needs the sort of reform no party will dare to do for fear of alienating voters. It will be no better, if not worse.

He wants to abolish gp partnerships, with no answer to how he'll get done all the work that partners currently do for free

Labour will apparently open mental health hubs in every school and college, with no answer when questioned about how he'll staff them even if he has the money as current services can't recruit

That sort of thing

NHS Scotland the same...thanks SNP.
The NHS obviously needs an overhaul across the UK.

Which if it didn’t happen under the tories will never happen under labour who love a job for lifer

Completely unreasonable. They'll throw money at it without fixing a thing. Money down tbe the drain.

I really don't think anyone can solve it. There's too many issues across all departments. It needs completely rethinking from the bottom to the top. It will take too long.

NHS Wales receives the same funding per capita as NHS England, however Wales has a far higher proportion of people over 65 than England. The over 65s tend to have more health difficulties and cost the health service more.

Therefore NHS Wales doesn't do as well as NHS England.

If the funding was changed to a different model to take into account need rather than just population then it could improve.

The funding is decided at Westminster

The NHS was created in a different time. It has outgrown its original purpose and can’t function the way it used to now due to new diagnostics, treatments and an aging and increasing population.

Throwing money at it is now a waste, because it will simply be absorbed but no change seen. It is not fit for purpose anymore and unfortunately is going to have to change. You cannot continue to have a free system anymore and expect it to work and cover every thing in todays advanced medical times.

No and I don't believe Tory vote will either. I honestly don't know who to vote for...there is no one

There needs to be a cross party working party to thrash out a consensus on remodelling the NHS. It can’t go in as it is. The aging population and baby bust will put it under more and more pressure. There needs to be a review of literally everything with nothing being sacred. E.g. People go on about free at point of use like it’s the norm but internationally it really isn’t. Most people pay a small amount. And then both parties need to agree to making and maintaining those reforms. It is the only way forward and even though most people will probably be pissed off, it stops it being a political football. Ditto elderly care. We have to accept we can’t afford everything that everyone would like. No one wants rationing but we’re rationing at the moment in reality and not always in the most sensible way.

100% and I'd go further and add adult care and put euthanasia on the table for discussion too. Its time we are allowed ro decide if we wsnt to have control over being allowed to be pass away peacefully if qualify of life is at a point where it is just not worth it.

I've said it before and I'll say again, one of the problems in the NHS is that everyone wants to use it but no one wants to actually work for it!
We have money, we have vacancies, we can't fill them. We cant run a service if no one will work there.

Yes, but I also think the Tories are doing everything in their power to destroy and steal from all the public services. They are trying to leave it in a state where Labour can't save it. I'm terrified that it will be too late.

I believe that a labour government would have a positive impact on the NHS. A total 'fix' is not deliverable in a 5y parliament term (given it has taken 14y to dismantle), but a start is what is needed. As a previous pp stated, the gains in overall health terms under the last Labour government were substantial in terms of access for primary and urgent care, investment in education and population health approaches, and waiting times for elective care. Our NHS used to be one of the best systems in the world.

Paying staff appropriately for the work they do is important to stop the drift of skilled healthcare workers to other economies and incentivies training and retention. Investment in technology is also vital.

Its always depressing to come on these threads to read the manager bashing, 'bring back Matron' brigade. Good management will be essential to turning the nhs around. We struggle to fill manager vacancies at senior levels as managers are overworked and undervalued and, frankly, can get paid a lot more in the private sector for their skills. There is no incentive for clinical staff to progress up the management route, particularly between B7 (ward manager) and B8a (matron levels) and we need to invest in leadership development to support succession planning.

It may have changed in the last 3-4 years (though seems unlikely) but certainly before that the NHS was about 15-20% less expensive than healthcare across Europe on a per capita basis.

Im not sure what it would cost to repair issues in NHS or what changes need to happen but I’m also pretty confident privatising everything is unlikely to make the overall cost lower.

This. This poster actually works in the sector and knows what's going on.

@itsnotallfunandgames

Of course a Labour government will improve the NHS. They did it before and can do it again.

They trebled the funding for the NHS. They won't be able to do that again. Next time, they'll be limited re money and can't just spaff money at it again. They need to be far more careful with the limited funds. That means some kind of reform.

It will take a long time to recover the mess it is in. Labour won't be able to do that in one term. However I am absolutely convinced they will at least be fine the process.

Another term of Tories would mean the end of the NHS.

No I doubt it.
It's not just money, the NHS needs a redesign and it needs better management. It needs a ten year plan not a five year one. Labour will want to fix it but I doubt they are capable of. They will put more money in but without the ability or changes that need to go with it, so to be honest they will probably waste a lot of money.
Maybe a combination of Tory (slightly more astute and less woke) and Labour (more interested in all of society) for ten year stretch might work. Only might.

I believe that fixing the nhs would take a good deal of time but that the issues are relatively simple.

it starts with GPs. We either need them to do more or less. Currently I feel like they have a finger in the wind approach, they either need to be more in depth or they need to accept that they don’t know and they should be a simple triage service.

Most people working on the front lines in the NHS could tell you where money and time is wasted, we need management to listen to them. We need procurement that isn’t buying equipment from crooks. We need decision making that isn’t top down.

With incremental change I think we could see a return to the pre-tory era of the nhs after 10 years.