Why (if MN is to be believed) parents so bad at disciplining their kids?

[NoNailsPls]

Is it because the parents themselves are rule breakers/entitled/hate authority?

Or is it because they can't fathom their kids have faults and so even if they're proven to be a problem the parents back the kids up instead of the school? (I've seen this myself and can't understand the logic....)

(Inspired by the locked toilet thread)

Are the grandparents actually to blame? What happened at what time to make this generation of parents so ineffectual?

I think it's the other end of the pendulum. When I was a kid, my parents were quite authoritarian, and I know most of my peers had a similar experience. Lots of them have rebelled against the rules they had imposed on them, and have decided to be anti-authoritarian with their own kids. I haven't gone that far (apparently we are the strictest parents of kids in my DD's year group, by imposing manners, bedtimes, screen time limits and high expectations of behaviour), but I do listen to DD, explain why, apologise when wrong and consider her POV.
There are a lot of parents who seem to think limits, expectations, sanctions etc equate to cruelty, which I find hard to understand.
Judging by parents who I encounter at the school I teach in, there is also a problem of chronic lack of confidence: parents who say 'I can't [get my child to attend school/enforce uniform rules/ensure homework is completed/stop my child physically assaulting others]. I want to reply 'I bet you could if you tried', but obviously I have to be diplomatic.

Parenting has moved away from discipline - that’s why

Its such an outdated view on how to raise children

It can be quite hard to get a teen to do stuff.

The teens in my school who have vandalised the toilets/sexually assaulted people/stolen money etc are generally in with a bad crowd and often on and sometimes dealing drugs.

Giving parents more confidence isn't going to solve that.

Maybe we should go back to it (minus the physical punishments) as so many of today's children have no manners or stamina or resilience and are very entitled.

People used to be stricter. Not just parents, but teachers, the police, bosses, other people in authority positions. It’s now considered a better society if we listen to people (even if we don’t agree with them). In the past, I think punishment was dished out quickly, without any consideration of the context, and often people were blamed based on appearances/past behaviour rather than an assessment of the facts.

I think we’re all also too knackered to discipline properly. I’m guilty of this. I’d be happy to dish out punishments but I end up being ground down by it all. Most of the time it’s ok, but there’s a lot of things I let slide just to keep the peace.

Are they? I’d love to see your data sources for that (outside of the odd daily mail link that is)

This generation of young people drink less, do fewer drugs, fewer teen pregnancies - on all sorts of indicators are a very sensible generation.

I honestly think people forget what kids were like in their own generation. I went to state schools in decent areas and kids smoked in late primary, first girl to get pregnant was 13, etc etc. Kids told teachers to fuck off in class, dropped out at 15, were illiterate. All kinds of stuff.

Mine are only small but I lack confidence. I’ve read all the books but just feel like I don’t know what I’m doing. It’s hard and I’m lost. I have no help. There’s not really anywhere to turn.

I don’t beat my children so they don’t behave in a certain way out of fear and I’m perfectly happy with that.

Kids need boundaries as well as love and encouragement. In fact it makes them feel more secure to have clear boundaries. I think one of the problems is that people are bringing kids up without extended family support so they are more tired and have fewer role models. Modern parenthood is not easy.

Too many people seem afraid to say no to their toddlers, and then 10 years later wonder why they have entitled teenagers who walk all over them.

You don't have to be strict or domineering or abusive to enforce boundaries, and you shouldn't be afraid of your childrens' disapproval when you do it. Pay now or pay later.

So what happens to kids , I suppose primarily nasty boys whose place is really not in school ?

Some of the problems stem from the fact that some parents try to be friends with their dc, esp. young teens.
Your friend doesn't tell you to do your homework or be home by 10 o'clock.

@NoNailsPls Discipline means to teach, so what do you think parents should be teaching their children?

And, what's yours AIBU?

I worked in a school.

Lots of parents of teens will tell you that "I can't do anything with him, can you try to talk to him".

Some parents of teens will say he would never do that. (We had cctv in many areas for this reason)

Some parents would say "I'm really sorry, he was attacked by another gang member with a knife and now he's impossible".

Well in our experience the parents of the most badly behaved children are themselves utterly feral. They’re the ones who’ll park their (untaxed) pickup (those massive Ranger things) on the pavement, are banned from all the pubs in town, and challenge you to a fight if you even so much as glance at them. Luckily most of their children disappear from school by year 10 but they make life hell for everyone while they are there.

Disciplining is harder than not disciplining. It takes mental effort and willpower to stick to your guns in the face of a young child who is upset or angry at your consequences, and to stay calm yourself. It makes me sad to see my child upset even if I know they have to learn the boundaries, the hard way if necessary. I do get why people struggle.

I can't believe this. I think you have this the other way around!

What’s hard to believe? @pjani posted basic facts

This.

Every generation gets old and suddenly thinks everyone younger is far worse than they were.

Data and statistics do not support this hypothesis.

And MN is not a an accurate barometer of how successful parenting is. Mum’s rarely make threads to say ‘Just wanted to let everyone know that I’m doing a great job of raising my kids, they are perfect and we’re all so happy.’

People post more for support and advice when things aren’t going great. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Based on the thread that this was in reference to I meant:

• not destroying school property
• not attacking other people
• not pissing on the floor

What has changed that kids can do these things and the parents instead of being appalled when they hear will stick up for the child and be angry at the school for saying bad things about their kid?

People want to be friends with their children which is a big mistake.

I struggle because we are just going through an autism assessment and I feel like we need to find the strategies that work and are supportive and recognise when DS is acting the way he is because he is genuinely really struggling. There are things I choose to ignore that I am sure people judge me for but I try to focus on what is most important behaviour wise and creating a supportive environment. Even though he is young I don't think I could force him to do things he really doesn't want to do (most likely to be if he is having sensory issues) and not sure why I would - by working with him we have a far better relationship and achieve much more than strategies that others (class teachers, GPs) try that mean he just shuts down