Why (if MN is to be believed) parents so bad at disciplining their kids?

[NoNailsPls]

Is it because the parents themselves are rule breakers/entitled/hate authority?

Or is it because they can't fathom their kids have faults and so even if they're proven to be a problem the parents back the kids up instead of the school? (I've seen this myself and can't understand the logic....)

(Inspired by the locked toilet thread)

Are the grandparents actually to blame? What happened at what time to make this generation of parents so ineffectual?

So is this a TAAT?

Still not seeing your AIBU.

Seems you just want to bash mums.

I could not agree more.

I think a lot of children in Gen Z have had more screen time than previous generations and struggle with paying attention, and this causes bad behaviour in school. Millennials had a fair amount of screen time too, but kids could still play out and kids TV was only on at certain times in the day.

The fact that kids have less time playing outdoors with friends (without their parents watching their every move) has caused kids to be more socially anxious than previous generations.

When my dc we're younger we had a lot of stick off our parents for being 'harsh' on them for naughty behaviour. Lots of 'oh he's only 3' etc.
Yes he was three but we were strict about behaviour and therefore now have a very well behaved 9 year old. He has asd and adhd and may be an exception to the norm but setting firm boundaries from a young age has worked for us.
I see mums struggling at the school gate getting kicked in the leg by their toddlers and barely blinking an eye. Just picking them up and cuddling them.
I'm all for each to their own and I don't know everyone's circumstances but from my very small world view I do see a lot less discipline. Even schools aren't disciplining like when I was in school, disruptive children are given iPads! (Again not the same everywhere just what I've seen)

I'm absolutely not someone that believes in physical punishment but if you do end up with an out of control violent teen I wonder how you physically are expected to control them? Perhaps in previous generations physical threat even if not generally used kept young people in line more? That said my 70 year old parents both recall going to (separate) schools where the kids ripped the classrooms apart and teachers were either extremely violently authoritarian or hiding under their desks (literally on occasion).

My friend had a very problematic kid who at 16 she eventually had to throw out of the house because she couldn't manage him. She couldn't sanction him in any way or enforce boundaries as he'd just ignore her/snatch back things she tried to take/barge through doors she would try to lock etc. He ended up in a very bad way and is now in prison for life having been ensnared by gangs whilst without a proper home. She has two other well behaved young adults now and brought them up in the same way. I struggle to see what she could have done differently. If you don't fear or respect your parents and you are going through teenage brain remodelling which means you don't experience empathy or love as you should, what can be done to keep them in line? A genuine question rather than a push for corporal punishment, to be clear.

I used to get shouted at all the time at school (boarder) and was always picked up on everything; messy, late, forgot homework, looked like I hadn't brushed my hair...on and on from 6 to 16. I have extremely low self esteem as a result and even though I had an expensive education I was thoroughly undermined for 10 formative years of my life and frequently deliberately humiliated in front of my friends.

I would never do that to DC and as a result they are very confident, capable and kind young people.

I think an awful lot is placed on modern families. Most families need two, full time working parents. Then there is so many vocal voices about how to raise your kids and that if you do xx you are an awful parent but if you do the opposite you are also an awful parent. The relatively recent rise of technology and social media added a new dynamic that this current generation of parents didn't have experience of or role models on how to manage when they were teen. There's a lack of proper parenting support and a horrible vocal view that firm boundaries and consequences (by some) are touted as abusive.

It's a toxic minefield.

Granted though, we must be doing something right when you look at many of the stats.

There are many ways to control a violent teen. Most local authorities provide NVR training for this very reason.

Your friend sounds like an abhorrent person. Kicking her child out of the home where he then fell into gangs (most likely due to having no one else) and is now in prison. Disgusting

I think they turn a blind eye to it.
Ive seen several stand there (one while child threw stone at a cat and car) and not intervene.
Its tricky though as you want the child to realise themself and behave even when you arent there.

Lots of parents have moved away from authoritarian approaches to disciplinary, which is a good thing imo.

It is a lot of hard work though to parent authoritatively (boundaries, respect, consistently, acknowledging the child's feelings without giving in) so some parents find it easier to be permissive. It's also a lot of hard work to work on yourself to promote healthier relationships and healthy communication between adult and children. Many people are trying to do this and do a reasonable job.

Permissive parents tend to do a range of these things: lack boundaries when their children are younger, give children age-inappropriate levels of control and responsibility, think their child is their friend, think being a good parent means they make their child happy all the time, doesn't want to be the person who says 'no'. I understand why because this is all easier when they're younger, but there's long term consequences.

I think sometimes gentle parenting is taken a bit too far so boundaries can be non existent.

But I think generally it comes from a good place and parents trying to do the best for their kids.

Jeez @TheFancyPoet that's harsh.

Child loses parent, other parent tries everything to get them to school and you say?

I'm glad you kept that sort of person out of school? And you should be as well?

That goes against every mothering instinct in me. Awful.

I think I gave up thinking about it when I see people write 'it's normal for 2 year olds to destroy the place and write on wallls' type posts

No it isn't!

Parenting is hard. And it's so different now than it used to be. I think this woman hits the nail on the head.

www.instagram.com/reel/C4LN1Eqr-iy/?igsh=MXA2MDQ1MzQwdXR5dA==

Add more cars on the streets and technology and social media into the mix, and there's a lot to contend with now when raising children.

While my child has not had an experience like yours I agree you only hear people saying these comments about children or parents not disciplining from people who have compliant children/children who become compliant from discipline/consequences.

Not every child is compliant and not every child is defiant.

Everyone often thinks oh my child wouldn't do that cos I wouldn't let them
If they did this then their child wouldn't do that.

And yet that person has a completely different child so they wouldn't know

Really annoys me

It's not that I don't discipline my kids, I just choose my battles. My parents were very strict and it was their way or the highway. We have open discussions and compromise in this house. Not just "because I say so". We have set boundaries and rules. Mostly based around respect for each other. My teen can come and go as he pleases but still checks in with us first if he goes anywhere out of respect. If we say no for any reason, we discuss why and compromise something else. My DD is still young and works better with positive reinforcement to get her to do stuff. My kids are really lovely. They don't give me much trouble. I truly belive this is because we are not strict with them. Strict parents equals kids that learn to be good liars.

I’m definitely a lot more easy going with my kids than my parents were with me. I still retain the authority to put my foot down if needs be, but I let a lot of stuff go that my parents wouldn’t have accepted. But both of my DC are a lot closer to me than I was to my parents. They’re affectionate and want to hang out with me, and we have a laugh. I remember being a teen and my parents seeming like strangers almost, I couldn’t relate to them at all. I’m honest with my kids and they know I’m not perfect, but they both say they have the best mum in the world. Which I disagree with but as long as they think so 😂. So I don’t think being heavy handed is necessarily the best way forward,

Do you genuinely think kids are better behaved nowadays? I was a teacher for over 20 years - I can assure you they’re not.

Parenting has in general become far more permissive. I’m endlessly astounded at the way kids are allowed to talk to their parents - and treat them! Even small things like walking out of the classroom at the end of the day, throwing their bags at their mums and demanding a snack. No manners, no thank you, nothing. Baffles me every time.

What always strike some is that we as parents we question our parenting. We actually question what we're doing, is it right? Should we be firmer? Less strict?? More strict?? Etc. etc.

Our parents never did that. Ever.

We tie ourselves up in knots over it.

If I got told off at school my parents would back the school ( as long as school was being reasonable, and a telling off very rarely happened 😇)

If a child gets told off at school now the parent is more likely to come into the school and complain and the children know this and act accordingly.

Many parents expect schools to teach children manners and other social skills that they themselves have failed to teach their children

Lone parent living in a terraced house with a child with suspected PDA has tied my hands. She's 12, shouts, screams blue bloody murder, physically kicks, punches and slaps me. I often think that if we were in a detached house then she could scream herself out given any tiny problem like she does, but then I could also really fucking shout back to reinforce how unacceptable her behaviour is, which I can't ever do. The only time my voice volume adjusts is when she hits me really hard and I react to that. Sick of being covered in bruises. Sick of the panic she induces in me. I'd never lay a finger on her but I’m her punching bag. School, social services, everything I've tried to get help with has shut the door in my face. So woohoo, abuse every day. I have CPTSD partially caused by her father who fucked off 4 years ago. At some point I’m going to break. Also partially from the severe child abuse I was put through.
You try so hard and this is what you get.

My generation having kids is getting most of the blame (I'm 23 with 3 kids) because the world has adapted to gentle parenting. If you don't do gentle parenting you're a horrible parent and it's abusive. I didn't adapt to gentle parent. I'm lenient, I don't mind them having sweets, chocolate and screentime but I will not let you disrespect or speak to other children with disrespect. I believe learning occurs outside the classroom so yes I will take my kids on holiday during term time and I let them stay off when they're ill but apart from that, they don't get to stay off and slack at home. I don't care about grades, I care that you're trying. If you allow your kids to slack and disrespect you and others, they will. "I'm tired of repeating myself" well sorry but that's what you signed up to by having kids. I repeat myself 100 times a day and will continue doing so until my kids learn good behavior and respect!

I’m 51 now so born in 1972. Growing up, as someone said up thread, adults were pretty strict. Parents, teachers, friends parents, relatives, pretty much every adult we came into contact with, were strict about behaviour. They generally wouldn't think twice about telling a child off or disciplining a child that was behaving badly. Adults acted like adults and did grown up things, kids were kids and did children’s things - then grew up and became adults. And the two words were quite separate.

that seems to have changed massively. A lot of my friends are not particularly strict with their children, they seem to want to be closer, more friendly and open with them. They listen to them, they take their opinions into account, they take them (too) seriously. And I think adults hold onto ‘childish’ behaviour a lot longer these days - in the way they dress, colour their hair, the music they listen to, the food they eat, the way they behave in public.

Idk I feel like my peers didn’t want to turn into their parents - so they went too far in the other direction 🤷‍♀️ I understand not wanting to be as strict and repressive as previous generations, but the way some of their kids talk to them is shocking. And these are generally well off, middle class parents allowing this, and acting like teenagers themselves.

@Ariona ot depends where you went to school but having been to a pretty average (good for the area) comp in the midlands in the noighties and now been teaching for over a decade I concur with this.

what had really changed for schools/society is the expectation that you reform children instead of just disciplining them out of the system. Some parents were always lax and others strict but I do think parents were more hands off in the past and now they helicopter too much and that impacts on the children’s confidence and independence as well as driving teachers mad because every positive or negative reward or sanction leads to conversation with the parent whether or not it’s necessary. In the past, for instance, if a teacher said well done to you for your work in class it was up to you whether or not to tell your parents about it, but now the points are online and the parents are watching and monitoring them al the time.