Why (if MN is to be believed) parents so bad at disciplining their kids?

[NoNailsPls]

Is it because the parents themselves are rule breakers/entitled/hate authority?

Or is it because they can't fathom their kids have faults and so even if they're proven to be a problem the parents back the kids up instead of the school? (I've seen this myself and can't understand the logic....)

(Inspired by the locked toilet thread)

Are the grandparents actually to blame? What happened at what time to make this generation of parents so ineffectual?

A lot of the gentle parenting is weak and ineffectual parenting.

My parents were the opposite, super strict, my way or the highway/ children should be seen and not heard etc. I hated this, particularly "because I said so". The child isn't learning anything other than to blindly follow rules.

I'm stricter imposed more boundaries than most parents in my children's classes however I've always explained why. They will do as say because they understand why.
DH and I have been on the same page since they were born which has been essential. I'm not perfect and neither are DC but I do have compliant and easy going kids because I said no a lot when they were small and always followed through on consequences, this was mixed with discussion and praise for good behaviour. I will apologise to them when I'm wrong, something my parents never did.

Agree with @pjani . I'm in my 50s with young adult children. I grew up in an affluent London suburb and never wanted for anything. My parents were firm but fayr.
My adults kids were much better behaved than me and my school cohort were. Our behaviour at school and outside of, was far worse. We went to pubs at 14, I was in central London a few times a week at 16.
Girl in my o level class was pregnant. We all did drugs, it was the acid house era. And left school at 16. My parents were, and still are, great parents. My kids both have great jobs, one after uni, one after an apprenticeship.
When I was 18 I was in Australia (I am London born and bred).
My kids hardly drink, don't do drugs, go to the gym (that wasn't heard of when I was 18!) and they live a much more healthy, self aware life than me and their dad did at their age.

I believe discipline is important in directing your kids in a certain good direction..and knowing if they stray there are consequences and no leeway to talk there way out of it..my 3 kids are well mannered and polite..it was hard but i know theyll be better for it in the future and if a slight discomfort to put them on the road to being good is needed i will always discipline mine with punishment

The facts in the first paragraph are true. However the behaviour in secondaries now is far far worse. I went to a bog standard comp in a rough part of a big city in the 80s but it wasn’t as feral as some of the behaviour you get in my kids’ comp today and that’s partly because of the total lack of support from parents and complete loss of respect for teachers.

I was a childcare provider for over a decade and then had my first child four years later. I now have three children, two boys and a girl (9,6, 4 mo).

From what I’ve seen and experienced myself, I haven’t seen this massive difference people are talking about. From what I remember as a kid myself, there were always parents who were ridiculously permissive or strict about disciplining their children Gentle parenting is not permissive parenting but people often talk about them interchangeably and some parents think they are the same. The only major differences I notice is that:

1. People are more aware of other parents’ parenting, lenient or not, and can openly judge and voice due to SM and will believe that most parents are a certain way even if they don’t see that in their own environment.
2. Parents are looking more at the way they themselves were parented, the effects it had on them and choosing to do things differently and seek out other parenting methods.
3. There is more performative parenting on SM and people will applaud those who are like them even if the parenting is questionable or even damaging.

Children without parental supervision are doing the same things that I remember other children doing as a child. I do notice that too many parents have not taught children to be aware of their surroundings and to make space for others, but since many adults of various ages don’t do this anyway, I can’t expect the children to know or be taught themselves.

It’s about balance. Too permissive - they think they can get away with whatever they like as there are no boundaries or consequences.

Too authoritarian, the child loses respect and resents the parents and acts out.

Like most things in life there’s a middle ground. You show children respect as a thinking, feeling being as opposed to the ‘’I’m big, you’re small so do as I say’’ attitude that parents used to employ.

I think it’s gone full circle now, parents aren’t as harsh but neither can they be arsed to set any boundaries or expectations, so you have a new generation of entitled kids

People don’t seem to discipline children these days. Two of my children are in primary over the last couple of weeks one of them had a water bottle repeatedly thrown at the back of their head/ neck. In another class a child kept hitting mines with a pen by attempting to stab it into her arm. In both cases teachers politely and repeatedly asked offenders to stop but there seems to be no consequences or physical intervention. I complained the heads response was to ask child who’d been hit from behind with a water bottle what he’d done to upset the thrower? All incidents get written up as a tit for tat so there is no bullying apparently.

Personally I’d of removed items after first time and gotten an apology and then separated children for the rest of the time. It’s how I’d intervene at home if dc were hurting each other.

I work in the kind of school where children threaten violence towards each other and we have CCTV. It's a primary school.
When I started teaching in the 90s and there was an issue with a child, parents were mostly supportive. Now, fewer are. They are much more likely to back their child over staff and we now have a huge number of children who know they are untouchable. We can put in every kind of restorative conversation and positive behaviour management strategy but if parents don't think their child should have boundaries or consequences, we've got little hope.

I don’t have the data so can’t say either way, I’m merely asking for someone who is making a big assertion to back those views up.

Anecdotal evidence isn’t very valid

@Helfs I agree on the kicking out, I wouldn't have done it but it was a very challenging situation where the kid was being violent to his siblings and his mum despite trying to get help from various authorities couldn't control him. She ultimately felt she had to protect her other children. I dont agree with her actions as i say but I dont see how she could have stopped his behaviour. I'd be interested to looking into methods of NVR - I'm a parent of small children so haven't yet looked into handling teenagers. My research is all about threenagers and big little feelings at the moment.

Unfortunately for children there is a it of a fear around setting boundaries and a lack of understanding of what attachment and relationship health actually is regarding bringing up children. So many just don't know how to self soothe and self regulate which contributes to ongoing anxiety.

None of this is new, kids have been sexually assaulted in schools since schooling began.
theft, physical violence and bullying have occurred in every generation.
modern generations are more inclined to tell grown ups about it, which I believe is a good thing.

so sick of people whinging about badly behaved kids.
this generation is the most empathic, accepting, creative and innovative yet.

the access to information we have now just highlights the ends of the spectrum in everything

I think children reflect our society.

Our society has changed hugely - it is more fractured, we share fewer values and are more in conflict with each other - particularly online.

We all want the best for our children, so it's getting more competitive - and this can make us all selfish in the way we try and ensure our children get ahead.

Adult behaviour out in public can be very poor role modelling for children. Children are made more aware through media of all sorts about the problems of the world and this country - it is pushed straight at them.

Children are doing the best they can in the circumstances they live in. I think all adults need to be doing what they can to help them all (as a group) rather than constantly nitpick and criticise what is often normal developmental behaviour for children.