Mental health support at Uni - social sports clubs would help not just for elite players

[Neapolitanicecream]

Hello all my YP is struggling with loneliness at a Uni that was considered top last year !!!! A lot of the clubs are on paper only so it looks good on someone CV 🤔

her cousin at a very sporty uni is thriving at a midlands uni renowned for sports, (so he thought he wouldn’t get into any clubs) but the uni have inter-houses social football…. Brilliant idea to support YP mental health.

please please so called top unis with amazing sports facilities please introduce social sports and not just for the elite

If it's bristol I know various kids who've gone there and been really unhappy. I also know a couple who have been fine but have heard more tales of kids being disappointed and unhappy.

The opportunity to play social sport was high on my list when I was at uni so I chose Durham and my son has done the same. He plays uni hockey (of which there are six teams I think) but there's two or three college teams for some sports and everyone can play something if they want to. From memory, Nottingham and Exeter have a similar set-up but around halls of residence.

Without wishing to be harsh, if that was a key factor, it could have been considered when your daughter was making her choices. But it's not the job of the university. And to echo other posters, it's not hard to set up a team (I started a women's college cricket team which was a lot of fun). A few notices up/posts on social media and she might find a group of others feeling the same way.

I don't know the source of your stats and I don't recognise this in the universities I've worked in. But, I would suggest that many students of those students arrived with MH problems. They are not caused by the university, who generally trying their best under very difficult circumstances.

It's well known that MH issues in all young people have been on the rise. And that CAMHS is not fit for purpose. There are threads on these themes on here all the time. Universities are there to provided higher education (and support in pursuit of that education). They are not therapy centres.

If your mental health is not strong enough for higher education, you shouldn't go to university. You're wasting everyone's time and money, including yours.

"The op did not say they don't have clubs , or that her dc was too shy to go.She said the sports club was not appropriate for beginners/ intermediate players, and many of the advertised societies do not actually exist or at least meet."

Yes, my experience is that my DC's university says it has hundreds of clubs. Most of these are specific for students from a particular country/religion/language. Of course, no-one can stop my DC joining the Taiwan club, but that doesn't change the fact that my DC has no need of any of the country/religion/language clubs.

Then there are many that only exist on paper, usually ones that sound good on a CV: multiple permutations of business/finance/consulting/economy clubs etc. My DC is a member of several, has only been to one once because the purpose they serve is to look good on a CV.

Then the sports ones, which the OP has mentioned. btw it is very obvious which uni it is if you look at the details of the sports/facilities involved. And the circumstances of that uni also make some community involvement tricky. My DC's uni sold/cold almost all its sports facilities, and as PPs have said, at these types of unis the sporting opportunities exist relatively far from uni facilities/accommodation and attendance often involves transport/walking streets late at night or long transport that adds too much time or is too restricted in capacity to be of use to a casual participant, so tend to attract only elite participants.

The fact that funding of universities in the UK is totally messed up and home students are underpaying for their courses (but not their accommodation - my DC's accommodation is fully funded by the rents paid with no uni financial support), is not really relevant to whether a student is entitled to feel lonely or have their mental health made worse by their experience of uni in the UK. There are alternative funding options (e.g. graduate tax) that the current government is not brave enough to implement, and that is not the students fault. Universities should still have a duty of care to their students not to make their mental health worse, and many are failing at this. It is also not the fault of the students that all non-academic activities are separated out to a student union, which also does not have a duty of care, or that mental health support is separated out to a student disability service, which often has no power to ensure that faculties are responsible with students' mental health. An employer of an 18 yo does have a legal duty of care (as it does to all its employees) not to cause their mental health to deteriorate due to the employment, and an employee is not obliged to stay for 3/4/5 years if the employment is detrimental to their mental health or just an unpleasant place to be.

And the OP's DC might be an international student who is paying a lot of fees (as many as 60% of students at UK universities are international), so the comments about students not paying enough for their courses would not apply (and are entirely irrelevant to whether universities should support students in maintaining good mental health).

And the situation of a lonely miserable teenager probably quite from home on their own in an environment that is not supportive of their mental health would still apply.

This.

I've heard senior academics admit the system is screwed up and tense and they wouldn't genuinely advise many YP to go UNLESS they're super focussed and pragmatic and see it as a "means to an end".

All the news stories about bullying, the students not even getting their degrees in the strikes...that's the tip of the iceberg.

The time of it being about personal growth and chilling down the bar and meeting new people from different backgrounds (whilst on full grants) is over.

Universities are doing the "hard sell" to get the numbers up (targeting fairly aggressive, dishonest outreach at POC and women, all to get more money for old white men).

But often the social mobility can be incredibly low once the students have actually signed up and are in the system. You see all the people from similar backgrounds flocking together and quietly excluding anyone else.

(You also frequently see "non-traditional" people being manipulated into paying massive amounts for Masters degrees as if that will make them "fit in" - but they're just treated like cash cows with no good job at the end).

I agree with the take that a lot of non-international students have opted out in terms of going home for the weekends, and not having a campus social life beyond the minimum.

Pragmatically as I said, I'd focus on getting that 1st or high 2:1 and utilising any opportunities for placements or resources.

Either get into the graduate corporate milk round or use the time to upskill/build a side-hustle (university is the ideal time to do this, as they're living on a shoestring anyway so don't need to bring in extra income immediately).

Make allies and find people who can be references. Or use the time to pick up AI skills and get a grip on investing and financial planning and what's happening there.

I wouldn't throw good energy in places where nothing is coming back.

No my comprehension is perfectly fine. I am saying I simply do not believe that there is any top university in the UK where social sports are not offered hence asking her to name the uni.

If you believe you know then perhaps you should name them. I would also say if you think it is Bristol then you are very wrong as they have a myriad of clubs and sports for all sorts of levels.

I don't think it's Bristol, but not far off. Bristol has been high profile in not supporting students' mental health, and most appallingly for fighting against universities having a legal duty of care to their students (so bizarrely universities have a higher duty of care to their staff than to their students).

But it may be that Bristol is actually trying to improve, whereas other universities where students quietly drop out in large numbers due to poor mental health outcomes from their experiences at university are complacently ignoring the fact that their practices/organisational management/exam system (some have gone back to antiquated, unnecessarily highly-pressurised, rote-learning exams in giant conference centres at the end of each academic year ffs, nothing was learnt from the pandemic at all) do not support students' mental health at best and at worst are harmful to their mental health.

Btw I don't think it is the responsibility of the individual lecturer, underpaid and unhappy, to sort out a student's sporting social life. But the university as a whole should take on more responsibility, maybe not palm off student well-being and mental health to separate student unions/disability departments that ultimately have little power or accountability.

And my guess at the uni in the OPs case paid a notoriously scandalous amount to top staff, not a good use of resources at all. Probably not the only uni to overpay those at the top.

What is a YP?

@itsnotallfunandgames

How awful to think that at any university there are probably hundreds of lonely students feeling stuck in their rooms because social spaces like kitchens, lounges, sports clubs etc are dominated by the extroverted or elite.

That's exactly it. My son went to Uni in 2020 and his Uni did everything online for the first full year, so no opportunities to meet people via the course nor his lecturers. Sadly that set the scene for him. After a year basically stuck in his room, even when common rooms, lecture theatres etc opened up for his second year, he found the common rooms, bars, etc dominated by the extroverted and he couldn't get a look in. He went to his college bar/common room to watch premier league footie a couple of times, but he literally just stood in a corner as everyone else was in their own groups, getting more and more drunk and noisy, never bothered again. Same with the pool table, dart board, etc - groups always dominating them so he couldn't get a look in.

Unfortunately at his Uni, the kitchens were tiny with a tiny round "breakfast" size table and 3 chairs - for an 8 person flat! So not much opportunity there either as whenever he went in, there were already people parked at the table, so he had to make his meals and take back to his room.

It's really hard for the quieter, less assertive ones.

I'm guessing it's possibly Durham given they have a large box on their website saying they were sports university of the year. Durham is collegiate so I'm surprised but it's also non campus and any non campus university is going to require a bit more effort to get involved in things. However if I am right then Durham hardly sells itself on its sports. It's all about the academics with them.

OP I'd encourage your DD to join something unusual. Competition will be lower.

However if I am right then Durham hardly sells itself on its sports. It's all about the academics with them.

Sorry, have to disagree, Durham's always been one of the big sporting unis, particularly for rugby and hockey. As I said upthread, there's also lots of social college sport for men and women.

Sports aren't some sort of magical cure for depression. Not everyone even likes them.

I’m not saying they’re not sporty. I’m saying it isn’t their headline USP.

@missshilling my understanding is that OP means 'young person' by 'YP'

The whole 'don't go to/stay on at university if your mental health isn't good' is discriminatory and illegal. Would the same be said for someone with impaired physical health? Would be same be said for staff employed there?

If DC with subpar mental health shouldn't go to/stay on at university because it's an adverse environment for them and universities should not have any duty of care, does that apply to staff too? Could it be said that a staff member with subpar mental health should not be working in a university because it is not a suitable environment and universities don't have any responsibility to staff members who have/develop mental health problems? No, that would also be illegal.
Universities should be places that all young people can attend, their mental health should be supported, and definitely it should be not worsened by their experience of university. So many students experience worsened mental health at university.

If increased opportunities for exercise, whether team-based or use of existing facilities, would help support mental health, why shouldn't a university as an organisation (not individual lecturers or course admin) ensure that these opportunities are available to all students?

btw the detail I picked up on is the Olympic-sized pool, only a couple of unis have these and only one is rated as a best university.

The whole 'don't go to/stay on at university if your mental health isn't good' is discriminatory and illegal. Would the same be said for someone with impaired physical health? Would be same be said for staff employed there?

Actually it's very sensible advice. If your child is vulnerable it isn't a great idea to take away their entire support network and put them into an environment where they know nobody and are having to face all sorts of new challenges alone. Far better to take a gap year to try to address some of the mental health issues and then go when they are able to cope and less at risk of wasting the thousands and thousands of pounds in fees/living costs when they have to drop out.

I don't work at a uni but live in a city with more than one. I agree with PPS that local non uni sports might be a good option. There are park runs here and lots of opportunities to do other sports like 5 aside football.

I hope your young person can find something that suits.

@inkblackheart I see your point, but mental health conditions are not all temporary and transient, or even fixable. The same applies to physical disabilities and no-one expect people to take a year out and get better. They are supported and no-one thinks it's OK for the university environment to make their disabilities worse or for the student to be told that a university education/environment is not for them.

Many conditions are on-going and long-lasting, and people who have them should not be denied opportunities or held back. There are employers who pride themselves on being 'disability aware/positive', which includes mental health. But no such scheme/mentality exists for students paying to go to university, paying for university accommodation. It is seen as a 'you problem', as the yp apparently say these days.

The answer is not either do nothing or do everything. There is much that universities can and should do to ensure that their students don't suffer worse mental health due to their university experience, which from the perspective of the OP is to ensure that all students can use the advertised sports facilities in an user-friendly accessible and welcoming manner.

Great post

Agreed.
University is something that some people choose to do. It is an 'opt in'.

What seems apparent to me is that you opt in to things that are going to enhance your life. It is a higher education which is optional, and in not for around 55-60% of 18 yr olds (happy to be corrected on this year's %, but you get the point).
Even if you choose to study a degree (and more of the population won't than will), you can do that without leaving home in various ways.

It's not discriminatory to offer optional things that not everyone is going to be able to access. I could never run a marathon, but it's not discriminatory for thousands of marathons to be organised up and down the country. It's just something that goes on that's not for me. If living away from home is not for you, then follow a path in life that means you don't have to live away from home.

I fundamentally disagree with your post and it illustrates everything that is wrong with the system.

Everyone should have the opportunity to go to university, that's not even a question. But you need a certain set of skills - academic, social, life etc. to go. That's not because universities are "adverse environments", they are not. They are incredibly supportive. I wish you could sit in the meetings that I sit in that shows how staff are utterly dedicated to helping every student succeed. Some students need more support to succeed and that support is absolutely there. I'm talking about students with care experience, students with disabilities, older students etc.

However, universities are training programmes for professional careers. They are graded and ranked in part by the career outcomes of their students, so they are incentivised to get students ready for graduate level jobs. They will do this in part by setting expectations like meeting assignment deadlines, delivering presentations, working in teams.

If you can't deal with that then university is not for you. That's not discrimination in the same way as not employing me as a catwalk model is not discrimination. There are some people who are so smart they could pass an undergraduate degree at 13, they don't tend to go to university until later. Again, that's not age discrimination, it's a recognition that they are likely to have to develop other skills before they will succeed.

It is a shame that they don't have non competitive sports groups. They certainly did at the university I went to years ago and I think they still do. The society was divided into two for the sport itself with some of the competitive team Olympic standard. I was in the non competitive group so just for fun. Social events were together.

The very good uni I went to, albeit a very long time ago, had lots of social sport on offer alongside the teams for good player. I also find it odd that others wouldn't and agree it's an issue for the students union, not the university.

I am very sceptical indeed that there is no non-elite sport at the uni at all.

Quite normal and common for an intramural league in football and netball to exist between hall/uni departments etc. or any group that wants to join tbh.

Or for there to be things like touch rugby, ultimate Frisbee, mixed netball and non conventional team games being offered. Plus activities like scuba diving, sky diving, caving, hiking which aren't team sports but team activities.

It probably is rare for there is be social teams in more obscure team sports like hockey or lacrosse? There probably aren't enough interested social players to sustain a social league so the uni will just have a first team.

However if your young person simply doesn't want to join/doesn't feel able to join in anything, that is more the issue. It's a lot easier to tell your mum that there are no clubs to join rather than say "i can't/won't/don't want to join in"