If you are not reducing your intake of UPF…

[maybein2022]

… with all the media attention on UPF at the moment and so much research coming out about it. Interested to know. If you’re NOT reducing your intake of it, is it because you’re not able to (finances/accessibility/time), because you don’t want to or don’t think it’s a problem, you and/or your kids are neurodivergent and a lot of ‘safe’ foods are UPF or other reasons.

YANBU: I am reducing mine/my family’s intake
YABU: I am not for reasons listed above (or other reasons)

You're being ridiculously reductionist and blinkered. @Garlicking just because a scientist has decided to focus in one specialist area doesn't preclude them from being articulate in explaining other branches of science as well. We can all be scientists (= knowledge) if we choose to broaden our minds a little and take an interest.

That's like writing off Zelenski because " meh he was a comedian" yes but he will go down in history as an inspiring leader for his country. Human potential is only limited by attitudes like yours.

100% @Menora

I’m not sure if you’re being deliberately obtuse. It’s perfectly possible to be concerned about food safety and ethics, and about the suitability of specific ingredients (aspartame), and to think that eating junk food is bad because of its low nutritional value, whilst also thinking the idea that all processed food is actively harmful despite no real evidence, and regardless of its nutritional value, is rather sheep-like behaviour.

Oh! Okay, then we should get dietitians to investigate the mechanisms of viral infection, the pharmacological response of viruses to antiviral drugs and the evolution of drug resistance! As long as they like being on the telly. Got it!

The UK has not banned any food additives that are legal in the EU. (If you know of some, I'm interested.) We do permit a few the EU doesn't, though.

Lead, arsenic and tobacco are substances. UPFs are not substances, they're a foggy idea.

I'm giving up ...

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, orange juice from concentrate is apparently a UPF and orange juice not from concentrate is apparently not a UPF. The same is probably "true" of apple juice. This is bonkers, and makes me want to know who decides the truth of these things.

UPF is an arbitrary label. There is no good formal definition of it. It adds nothing to all of the previous debates about getting enough fibre, ensuring you have a reasonably variety of foods, eating fruit and veg, and not eating double your RDA of calories.

There are no USDA, UK government, or EU guidelines about what constitutes an UPF. It's a UPF is Chris van Tulleken (do you remember voting for him?) or the Daily Mail says so. As far as I can tell it's the wild west, with most people who are involved in it trying to sell me either a product ("our juice is not a UPF, honest") or an ideology ("your digestive biscuits are made by McVitie's who are owned by a multinational and they are therefore deadly UPFs, these artisan digestives come from a local cooperative farm and are therefore highly nutritious, although they both contain partially inverted sugar syrup and skimmed milk powder").

I don't know how we got to this point where food has never been safer and yet everyone is convinced it is killing them, but here we are. I guess there's a big market for being scolded.

I guess there's a big market for being scolded. Nailed it 😏

I like Xand VT's rule of thumb about would you have the ingredient in your kitchen. I am in a fortunate position so far as affording food but most of the pre prepared things I buy are made with "real ingredients"...and no i don't shop in "artisan" shops.

I don't know how we got to this point where food has never been safer and yet everyone is convinced it is killing them, but here we are. I guess there's a big market for being scolded.

Obviously it’s an exaggeration to say that processed foods and ‘ultra’ processed foods are directly killing people, but we are getting sicker- and diet is one of the factors involved. Of course it is- you only have to look at the obesity situation to see that there’s a problem. I am not interested in scolding or lecturing anyone- and I DO eat processed and ultra processed foods so am certainly not judging anyone, but it’s just very obvious that excessive amounts of processed food and drinks might impact someone’s health.

I don't know how we got to this point where food has never been safer and yet everyone is convinced it is killing them, but here we are

Are you joking? We are in the midst of an obesity crisis, people are literally eating themselves to death.

The effects of upf are cumulative, long term and over decades not weeks or months.

the BMJ has done a peer-reviewed umbrella study which is meta-analysis of numerous research data and identifies 32 health impacts linked to consumption of upf - correlation not causation - using the recognised Nova classification for upf:

https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2023-077310

the BMJ has done = has published

Honestly.. I haven’t heard anyone I know in real life mention UPF.. I kinda see it as part of the whole mumsnet middle class orthorexia thing we see so often on here. I try to eat as healthily as I reasonably can, most of the time. And like most people I’m limited by time, budget, circumstances, other factors. I also occasionally just really fancy McDonald’s!

Oh do get over yourself and lighten up! Obviously you were absent the day a sense of humour was being handed out. If being "mature" means turning into someone like you I'm out thanks.

Good on those who want to obssess over their eating habits and deny themselves any pleasures - frankly I find them boring as hell. As are those who must rush onto MN to prove their superiority to us mere mortals who simply use food as fuel but want to make it enjoyable at the same time.

As for your next comment: You don't get to dictate what counts as cringe or immature thanks, it's completely subjective addressed to another poster. That's interesting - so you are allowed to say other posters' comments are cringe and immature but no-one is allowed to say the same thing to you???? Rather shot yourself in the foot there haven't you?

Btw, I'm just back from Maccas and enjoyed my breakfast very much.

I'm nowhere near Europe - there is a whole world out there you know,

Good find, thanks.

"22 pooled analyses were rated as low quality, with 19 rated as very low quality and four rated as moderate quality." They assessed 45 pooled analyses, none were rated as god or high quality.

The conclusion was that there's a case for better research to be conducted, in order to evaluate whether UPFs present an actionable risk.

"The strongest available evidence pertained to direct associations between greater exposure to ultra-processed foods and higher risks"

Direct associations could be due to a number of confounding factors, for instance lifestyles that predispose consumers to use "UPF" foods being themselves injurious to health.

Still hoping for an accepted definition of UPF. I'm not saying junk food isn't worse for your health than non-junk food but, if we're going to adopt a new metric, we need to know what it is and how it differs from food quality factors that are already well understood.

I’m not interested in living for a year or two longer by sacrificing eating what I like.

We don’t eat badly, but we do love some UPF and I’m cracking on with them.

Quite frankly I love a cheese string.

Open food facts app is useful for scanning bar codes. It tells you if UPF or not.

Obviously it’s an exaggeration to say that processed foods and ‘ultra’ processed foods are directly killing people

We firstly need to differentiate between processed and upf and not conflate the two as they are very different. Upf is the concern, not processed.

in scientific terms, correlation (as opposed to causation) describes the likelihood of one thing having an effect or effects on another. So, in the case of upf, there is a strong correlation between the consumption of upf and diseases such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease. So it isn't an exaggeration to create the link, it just isn't possible to isolate upf as the only cause of harm to humans.

it is very rare for any study to categorically state causation, because there are too many complex circumstantial factors at play to control for (eg: age, existing health conditions of study participants, socioeconomic and environmental factors, pollution, poverty, heredity). Instead they consider the likehood of a link. Upf is strongly linked to disease and poor health across society. There is too much evidence in hand from longitudinal studies to deny that harm.

Several years ago I listened to a lecture on the evils of white bread - from a man holding a glass of rum & coke in one hand and a cigarette in the other. True story.

Also, all those super heroes who eat nothing but 30+ vegetables and fruit a day, unless you are growing your own or buying everything organic do you ever stop to wonder about the chemicals used in their production?

Adds worrying about UPF to my bottomless Mother’s Load list

We eat fairly healthy meals or very rich, wholesome but mostly home-cooked food (eg roasts) - but DH and I love a UPF snack. I am addicted to chocolate. I do worry about it as I also get constipated (sorry!) so I worry about bowel cancer after reading a lack of fibre (which I do eat plenty of!) is in part causing the massive increase in this kind of cancer, along with the junk we eat that languishes in our gut, essentially rotting in it. I was much better at being quite disciplined pre-kids and jumped on the “clean eating” fad - still disordered eating… - but I find the increasingly fast pace of life for everyone and the rising stress means I often make less than ideal choices with food. It’s not a lack of education on the matter. So I suppose one of the things I find most frightening about UPF is just how addictive it is.

Moderating is key though. I grit my teeth when I read posts from parents who are really quite puritanical about UPFs. It’s a disaster waiting to happen, as a friend’s teen demonstrated when he started high school and guzzles fizzy drink now he can buy his own lunch. (Previously banned from drinking any of it) This is mild though when you think of how many young people are in the grips of eating disorders.

Direct associations could be due to a number of confounding factors, for instance lifestyles that predispose consumers to use "UPF" foods being themselves injurious to health.

This is the big question isn't it. We take the easy option food wise too often because we're exhausted, with years of stress and disturbed sleep and little time for exercise. I worry about my long term health, but day to day the sleep deprivation, managing DS needs and keeping us afloat financially leaves me too exhausted to do anything about it. Plus it's just one of so many worries.

Oh, @Penguin779, nothing's rotting in your gut! It's fermenting - okay, you could call it rotting - exactly as it's supposed to. Worry not 🙂

(Caveat for perfectionists: I have zero knowledge about the biochemistry of impacted bowel disease and similar. I assume something different happens to poo that's been bunged up for months, but the PP wasn't talking about that.)

There are genuine forever chemicals in your food, drink, air and everything you touch, as others have mentioned. Food additives have been extensively tested and marked safe for human consumption at permitted levels: that means they'll pass through your system normally.

Worry about the microplastics instead. Or don't, as you're already full of them and nobody knows what to do about it.

Yep, @EilonwyWithRedGoldHair, the insomnia and stress, etc, are doing you more harm than a jar of pasta sauce could. Hope you get an easier time of it soon.

No. I’m just going to continue eating what I want.