If you are not reducing your intake of UPF…

[maybein2022]

… with all the media attention on UPF at the moment and so much research coming out about it. Interested to know. If you’re NOT reducing your intake of it, is it because you’re not able to (finances/accessibility/time), because you don’t want to or don’t think it’s a problem, you and/or your kids are neurodivergent and a lot of ‘safe’ foods are UPF or other reasons.

YANBU: I am reducing mine/my family’s intake
YABU: I am not for reasons listed above (or other reasons)

I can see why you say that, but it seems to me that the Bible is an appropriate metaphor. The UPF thing, like most successful diet fads/movements, has quickly become cult-like.

Offering counter-arguments to factually questionable beliefs isn't an attempt to debunk the whole concept - that would be something like "there are no UPFs" or even "all UPFs are good for you". Nobody's said any of that here.

But it's a characteristic of cult members that they take any disparagement, of any aspect of their belief system, as a global attack on the belief and a personal attack on themselves.

Edit: changed 'incorrect beliefs' to 'questionable' because the science is woolly and very few outright falsehoods have been shared.

Where do you live because UPF consumption varies widely across Europe.

Ultra-Processed food as % of household purchases in Europe : r/ireland (reddit.com)

It's the other way round now. Xand is trim and just married and evangelical about exercise and the formally fit/lean Chris has stopped exercising and put a load of weight on - they've a new podcast out.

It’s concerning that anyone questioning the safety and ethics of the food industry and how our food is created and processed is seen as ‘a cult’. There is a lot of money holding up the economy in these companies so they will be going to extreme lengths to provide fund and promote to assist with debunking. It came out after the aspartame information that the American beverage association were paying health care professionals to ‘debunk’ safety concerns about aspartame in drinks. But hey, if you see big food as the good guys here crack on 😂

The smoking lobby did the same back in the day

Really weird. Not eating Macdonalds or ready meals or pizza or nuggets often, or at least not making them half your diet, is not a cult. But you do you.
Personally, the NHS has already stopped functioning for me.

Yes, reducing as much as possible. I’m doing Zoe and managed a week with 0% UPF. Kids though are ND and survive on very regimented “safe” beige tapas.

I don't see how you've arrived at 'cult-like' based on this thread, or are you referring to a wider notion?

Is your reference to 'questionable beliefs' referring to the afore-mentioned cult, or the entire body of research/data so far into UPFs?

I've worked in this area for years in the US, and I'm very familiar with societal attitudes towards the suggestion that people should eat/drink/live differently. I do find it slightly surprising to see it described as a 'diet fad' though.

See, that's hyperbole. Fixating on something called UPF is not "questioning the safety and ethics of the food industry". It's a single, ill-defined part of it that's been puffed into - well, a belief system.

One of the reasons I was keen to stay in the EU was because of its food regulations. Like I said upthread, I'm a nutrition bore and very concerned about the safety and ethics of food production/manufacturing. I know so much about it that I could probably write a decent text book.

Back when I could afford to be a purist, my diet was 90% "real food": minimally processed, almost all organic. This is what some posters on this thread are aiming for. But latching on to a "bad food" acronym won't deliver. UPF is an ill-defined term that, on Spector's word, doesn't include all pre-sale processing. He hasn't offered a clear list or evaluation protocol saying what UPF is or isn't, however. It's smoke and incantations.

Remember all the panic about E numbers? This is worse than that - you can look up an E-number, but anyone can tell you any old shit about UPFs and there's no definitive source to check!

Every few years the worried well need a new thing to obsess about. Otherwise how else can they show they’re wealthier, healthier, and basically better than everyone else?

A few years ago it was ‘clean eating’, before that it was the Atkins diet or whatever. At the moment it’s UPFs. In a few years it will be something else (or something old packaged up in new language).

Anyway, isn’t UPF just a slightly more sciencey way of saying ‘junk food’?

Yes, UPF is junk food, basically. I think it is a very, very different thing from Atkins or paleo or keto.

Can’t see the point when I live in a toxic city with fumes everywhere around me. I actually don’t eat that much of it anyway but everything seems to be a carncinogen and it’s pretty impossible to follow all ‘health’ guidelines set out by gov & NHS. NHS is still using BMI as a measure of health for goodness sake!

Yeah that’s a good point. Must admit I roll my eyes a bit at people who are evangelising about cutting out all UPFs when I know they drive their kids the less than a mile journey to school every day in a massive SUV.

It also seems like the new way for some people to excuse disordered eating, hot on the heels of “clean eating”, going gluten free and dairy free etc.

I've worked in this area for years in the US Your food is far more heavily tampered with from farm to shelf, and less regulated, than ours. If I lived there I would assume all affordable food to contain substances I don't want to eat, and probably taints the areas close to farms. It would drive me nuts!

Would you consider fresh pork a UPF? How about if it had been raised in cramped conditions on a mega-farm that pollutes everywhere for miles around with pig shit? Would you know what food additives it had been given, whether one of them was ractopamine and if it had been raised on antibiotics?

If it was a miserable pig from a skanky factory and is full of medications that may affect you, is its fresh meat a UPF or not?

We do. Although DH not really onboard. He eats what I make be will by UPF snacks. I don't really snack. This helps avoid UPF. Jason rolls are non-UPF. A lot of bread is UPF. Most ready salted crisps are non-UPF. The thing I struggle with for buying for the family are yoghurts (none of us like plain yoghurt) and cereal bars.

P.S. it is quite expensive. I have also been buying organic potatoes, carrots, salad, apples and peppers. Bananas and avocado are fine non-organic.

It is indeed another thing amongst so many things that pull at our attention and add to the hecticness of life. But not just women, men and children of both sexes can be involved too .

Even making small changes that are low burden is a great contribution.

You may find that your fatigue both physical and emotional would be address by what you choose to eat each day.

Not here to evangelise or convert you, if you were to prioritise one thing, one choice out of hundreds, self care and what you eat would pay dividends in a short space of time.

@cherish123, you can just stir jam or puree into plain yoghurt! I'm guessing many of you would consider jam a UPF 🤔 If so, how about microwaving/simmering some whole fruit?

I didn't know orange juice was UPF. Is that all orange juice. Apple juice is not UPF.

For me, it is cheaper. I don't buy organic. I use a pressure cooker or Instapot to cook. But it is more time consuming.

Lol at eating more veg and fruit being disordered eating. Only if you don't know how to cook it. like that lunatic vegan blogger.

Not sure if people on here are aware of Chris van Tullekin. He did a talk on UPF at the Royal Institute.

He provides a very accessible (and humanitarian-focessed) perspective on UPF. No scare tactics, no catastophising just common sense awareness.

We need scientists like him to raise awareness to this situation, enable people through knowledge and awareness and leave it to each of us to decide on our choices.

He recognises societal challenges, he isn't in an ivory tower, he talks about the reduced choices of those on low incomes. It isn't just " just switch to pasta and chicken, whats the issue?" its way more complex than that.

He has already been discussed on this thread, yes.😀

The issue with supermarket bread is that it mascarades as something good and wholesome aka The Staff of Life when commercially manufactured bread is loaded with sugar, salt and enhancers, improvers, preservatives and on it goes.

Back in the day Hovis was a staple food, now the ingredients list is much longer, because its made to be appealingly moist and lasts for a week or more.

French bread is delicious in the morning but the next day its stale and hard. There's a reason why!

i could eat a whole baguette in on sitting, no waste there!

"Chris van Tulleken has a medical degree from Oxford and a PhD in molecular virology. He is an associate professor at University College London and a practicing infectious diseases doctor. A broadcaster for children and adults on BBC television and radio, he has won two BAFTAs"

So he's a performer and a virologist.

Next time there's a viral epidemic threat, maybe we should ask a popular dietitian what to do about it.

@Garlicking But many E numbers were banned in the U.K. so I am not sure how this was hyperbole at all. I am questioning the food industry as are many others. If no one questions anything, and we accept it for its surface level explanation is this really the society you want to live in? We questioned the use of lead and arsenic. We questioned tobacco. Society will question industries who make a lot of profit on whether it’s ethical and safe or causing harm and that’s ok with me.