If you are not reducing your intake of UPF…

[maybein2022]

… with all the media attention on UPF at the moment and so much research coming out about it. Interested to know. If you’re NOT reducing your intake of it, is it because you’re not able to (finances/accessibility/time), because you don’t want to or don’t think it’s a problem, you and/or your kids are neurodivergent and a lot of ‘safe’ foods are UPF or other reasons.

YANBU: I am reducing mine/my family’s intake
YABU: I am not for reasons listed above (or other reasons)

@WhatsTheUseOfWorrying- good point- I hadn’t taken into account that US and UK ingredients in convenience foods are often different. I’m glad I don’t live in the US for many reasons and this is one of them.

Yes. Coconut oil was all the rage a few years ago, even though it tastes nasty in a lot of dishes.

Of course for a long time we were told that those 'polyunsaturated vegetable oils' were the bees' knees, but now they count as 'UPF'. Maybe stick with lard!

Basically this!

I'm not sure how much of what we eat counts as UPF
So for today's meatballs with spaghetti: passata? pasta sauce? which ones count as UPF? what about spaghetti, that's processed? are Linda McCartney veggie meatballs more or less processed than frozen meatballs, and what about fresh meatballs that have more fat and aren't as nice as the frozen ones?

Plus I don't have time to make our own chicken nuggets, breaded fish, etc. etc.

What is a “carnivore circle”?

Cut down but not cut out.

When you're like me and hate the idea of UPFs but are also on a budget, dislike cooking and handling raw meat then mealtimes become pretty bland if you want it to be as fresh as possible. I do cheat. I don't have the time or the will to make my own cheese or mayonnaise.

I think this is the crux of the matter really.

People don't understand how processing itself does effect food and the effects they have on your body.

It's not even just about macronutrients and micronutrients. If you eat whole corn, it will have all of the fibre and water and the carbs etc will be wrapped up in a food matrix, protecting the micronutrients and increasing the time it takes for your body to digest.

If you ground that corn up into a refined powder and ate that, nutrients and fibre will have been lost, most of the water will have been lost, and you would be able to eat much more of that corn in a short period of time.

Red meat, especially high quality meat, is nutrient dense. If you grind it up in a commercial processor and add extra stuff to it (and then slap it between some UPF bread and sauce), that is not going to have the same effect on you, nutritionally and metabolically, as a cut of steak.

I think the 'definition' as given by Chris (or is it Zand?) Van Tullken is that UPF is any dish which contains ingredients which wouldn't be found in a household kitchen. So the likes of emulsifiers, preservatives, stabalisers and the rest.

I've also heard it being used for any dish with more than 5 ingredients, but that sounds daft. If we're including spices, I regularly cook 'from scratch' dishes with well over 10, let alone 5, ingredients.

But what if you only mince the beef? Like McDonalds do? Do you think mince is ‘processed’?

And why is McDonalds bread any more UPF than anyone else’s?

I think our diet is pretty balanced. Most things are fresh and cooked from scratch but we do have shop bought pizza, cake, biscuits etc. I always make my own curry sauce and pasta sauce.

I've recently took early retirement, and I'm definately looking at this, now that I'm not stressed and snacking on rubbish all the time. I've always eaten loads of fruit and veg, but lots of UPF also. I was vegetarian for 25 years and cringe now at the meat substitutes I consumed. Absolute rubbish. My DS is ND and lives on UPF - I'm happy if he will eat ANY new food.

About 40 years ago I saw a documentary on the processed meat industry in the UK and I haven't eaten a burger since. I do eat some UPFs, but rarely meat ones except cured meat and fish (ham, smoked salmon and mackerel). Another thing that made a great impression on me and I can't remember who said it, was a quote I read on social media to the effect that supermarkets are full of things that aren't food but are packaged to look like it. For example, jars of sauces, cheap ready meals and so on. At the moment I am trying to lose weight by low carbing and the amount of hidden sugar in things is astonishing. If it's not hidden sugar, it's hidden sweeteners.

One issue with cooking from scratch is the amount of time and energy it takes. Another is, you find yourself shopping three times a week if you eat fresh veg and fruit. It is cheaper, but only if you don't get carried away by all the nice food for sale. I've always liked vegetables and there are few I don't like (hello sprouts!) so I have to be careful. Ready meals are full of bulking agents like sauces full of refined starch, so they look as though you are getting more food than you actually are. If you're replacing that bulk with fresh vegetables, you find yourself using a lot more.

I think we have a decent balance, mostly home prepared food and then some days where we’d need something quick and easy. As someone said above you can watch these things, cut down if you need to but I know too many people who died way too early in life from a range of things, some so random that you’d never know ‘today could be my last day on earth’. Add to this people who were so healthy and died of cancer and heart attacks (sadly in 30s, 40s and 50s) and the range of people I know in their 90s who aren’t that healthy… there’s only so much you can worry in life

I think focussing on UPFs in the way it is being done isn't necessarily helpful.

But was standing outside my local coop the other day watching the cages going in with the new deliveries and was really struck how much of it was high sugar/fat. Bottles of pop, Doritos, biscuits. Nothing fresh.

That's ok then, I can just live on home made cookies!

The point is, the more processed an ingredient is, the more rapidly it is digested. Think about how difficult a raw potato is to digest; we cook them to break down the strong plant cell structures and make them edible.

Even thoroughly grinding beef makes it more digestible than a whole cut. Even if you got fancy steak and ground it at home.

I don't know about McDonald's specifically, if they really do only grind their meet and they don't add any artificial ingredients, then that's lovely. I like a quarter pounder!

I think the point is, the large quantities of very easily eaten, very easily digested, very easily available highly processed foods are not good for people. And even if the ingredients sound similar, research is emerging that they're just not quite the same. Or more accurately, they don't have quite the same effect on our bodies as a less processed version of the same meal.

My personal theory is that we're not really designed to cope with the way UPFs digest in our bodies. I once read a study on hunter gather diets, and they actually get quite a large proportion of their calories through simple sugar (honey). But this would go along with lots of vegetable matter and minimally processed meat.

My own experience is that food that is highly digestible, quick and easy to eat and super palatable mainly falls into the UPF category. Even a delicious home made sandwich with homemade bread is not as soft and easy to eat as soft fluffy processed bread and soft chicken breast with added water etc. For some reason these foods do not really fill me up and I could (and do!!) eat sooo much of them.

Even if there is literally nothing else negative about them (which I personally don't believe), I would still move toward limiting UPFs because I they are so so likely to lead to weight gain.

The Roasting Tin books by Rukmini Iyer are great for food from scratch that is also quick and easy.

A lot of people seem unsure of the difference between processed and ultra processed. Not all processed food is UPF. And the distinction referred to by a pp about UPF being made by a multinational is not a common one though it may well have been part of the original literature.
It’s always going to be a rough and ready distinction with some marginal cases and other elements that are subjective. For instance for most western cooks, MSG wouldn’t be an ingredient you find in a normal kitchen; for many Chinese people it’s standard. However for the most part it’s clear enough, and generally people advising the consumption of less UPF are saying you should eat mostly non UPFs, not that you must aim for absolute perfection.

we don't eat upfs at home (except baked beans and tofu which are fine) but I eat some proper shite when travelling for work, as it can be difficult finding decent stuff on the road and also I'm terrible at resisting temptation especially when hungry. The thing I hate about UPFs is the uncontrolled nature of eating - I can demolish a packet of biscuits in one go but i'm unlikely to eat more than one home made flapjack. It always scares me how little control I seem to have.

Literally same.

Someone joked up thread about living on homemade cookies being okay, but I am on a diet and was really struggling with not binging on biscuits and chocolate bars.

I made banana bread today which I usually just make for the kids and avoid myself because I can't easily calorie count it (!) - I've had a chunk and my sweet craving is satisfied. I'm working in the kitchen rn and I feel no crazy urge to gorge myself on the rest of it.

If it was a pack of kit kats it would be long gone 3 hours ago 😅

There are some foods that certainly taste and look better if they’re eaten as they come. I always want some decent fat on a steak.

But most food is ‘processed’ in some way. We separate out fruits from stalks and tubers from leaves, etc. We grind flour and boil beetroot. We pluck, skin and butcher animals: a chicken curry is not a dead, feathered whole chicken stuffed in a pot with raw ingredients.

Mincing beef is no more ‘processing’ than is shelling peas.

Yes most food is processed but nobody is saying we shouldn’t be eating processed food at all, they are saying we should be limiting ultra processed food.

I have cut it down to almost zero for around the last 6 months. It has almost doubled my food shop cost and tripled cooking time. It really is unaffordable and impractical for many unfortunately.

What’s “ultra”?

Oh definitely I completely agree! I wouldn't call cooked potatoes ultra processed either.

I think there are 4 categories which seems sensible to me - unprocessed which is your raw apple, minimally processed which is your apple sticks, processed which is your pure apple sauce or even your home made apple pie, and ultra processed which is your long life ambient temperature apple flavoured fruit loaf.

What’s “ultra”?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/what_is_ultra-processed_food
Read this.
The current advice is to eat food as close to it's natural state as possible.
Of course you can't eat a chicken that hasn't been processed for example but you can buy plain chicken breast. You don't need one that is ultra processed and has a list of 15 ingredients in.
The recommendation is to eat single ingredient food as much as possible. So Greek yogurt and you add your own berries, banana, whatever is good. Yogurt with fruit already in isn't that great once you read the label and see their is a list of ingredient's including a ton of sugar.

Can't organise myself / too lazy.

For example, on Tuesday I went out with friends so we eat out. The healthiest option was more expensive than less healthy. Not sure it was UPF, but it was probably deep fried.

Wednesday had an evening class at 5.30. Eat a banana on the way and then in the break a cake type thing from the machine. Yes, I could have pre-packed something but that would have been sandwiches with supermarket bread so ultra-processed anyway I suppose.

For work, I have a microwave where I could re-heat something I've cooked at home, but that means spending a couple of evenings a week peeling and chopping veg rather than relaxing so most days I just grab something.