Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If you are not reducing your intake of UPF…

634 replies

maybein2022 · 06/03/2024 20:39

… with all the media attention on UPF at the moment and so much research coming out about it. Interested to know. If you’re NOT reducing your intake of it, is it because you’re not able to (finances/accessibility/time), because you don’t want to or don’t think it’s a problem, you and/or your kids are neurodivergent and a lot of ‘safe’ foods are UPF or other reasons.

YANBU: I am reducing mine/my family’s intake
YABU: I am not for reasons listed above (or other reasons)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
nightmareXmas · 07/03/2024 13:42

I voted YABU as I am not making any changes (don't eat much UPF to begin with), but YANBU to ask the question.

Personally, the UPF's I eat are quite healthy anyway - Tofu for example. I'm not sure if bread counts? But I do like a nice stoneground sourdough from the local bakery with some artisan cashew-based cheese, which is about as processed as you can get, but still healthy IMO. I think they should keep the messaging simple and just advise people to eat more fruit and veg, and less stuff out of packets.

I'm not convinced that UPFs are cheaper though, because something like a portion of fries or some Pringles isn't very satisfying (fast release carbs and no protein), so you end up eating loads more of them, so in terms of nutritional value for money they are quite expensive.

As far as children are concerned, I think there's a problem if they grow up being taught that vegetables are horrible and cheap *rap is a treat. I always loved my veg as a kid, because it was never a big deal. Family meals were simple and fairly cheap, but tasty.

Waitingfordoggo · 07/03/2024 13:44

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 12:57

The key to eating healthily seems to be what you call food.

Big Mac and fries? Appalling. You’re taking your life in your hands.

Steak sandwich in a darling local restaurant? Excellent. Product of the good earth.

So tonight’s chicken nuggets and oven chips will become nuggets de poulet avec frites.

Sorted.

You must surely know that there is a difference between a Big Mac and a piece of steak in terms of nutrition/additives?

I’m not knocking junk food, btw. I eat both steak and takeaway burgers- neither very often. But they are quite a different thing! One is much tastier than the other for starters

wherearemywellingtons · 07/03/2024 13:45

I don’t think we eat any. I mean, if the kids go to a party they can have a kids yoghurt (we usually make our own), cookie or chips if they’re provided but only on a special occasion. We live abroad and UPFs aren’t so common as in the UK. We usually eat homemade due to availability and the lifestyle here.

PawsisShady · 07/03/2024 13:45

I don't think I do too bad even though I eat some UPF, going from what I see in the supermarket and what colleagues eat mine is on the better side

Breakfast - Greek yoghurt, frozen berries, whey protein
Lunch - sandwich (supermarket bread) with egg or tuna mayo filling, plain tortilla chips (savers ones as they have the least ingredients) and a moser roth dark chocolate bar or an omelette
Tea - something like cottage pie from scratch but I use a stock cube, and veg on the side
Supermarket pizza once a week

wherearemywellingtons · 07/03/2024 13:47

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 12:57

The key to eating healthily seems to be what you call food.

Big Mac and fries? Appalling. You’re taking your life in your hands.

Steak sandwich in a darling local restaurant? Excellent. Product of the good earth.

So tonight’s chicken nuggets and oven chips will become nuggets de poulet avec frites.

Sorted.

Umm…. You do know that steak isn’t an UPF right? Steak in a sandwich on homemade bread won’t contain all the disgusting chemicals and additives that McDonald’s does. You can’t compare the two! I don’t even eat steak - and especially not in a sandwich - but come on.

BaconMassive · 07/03/2024 13:47

I do cook from scratch a fair bit, 2 to 4 times a week. Then again I eat some UPFs from time to time. Personally I don't care about the warnings, I'm going to die at some point from something.

Bacon is amazing though, right?

Sususudio · 07/03/2024 13:48

nightmareXmas · 07/03/2024 13:42

I voted YABU as I am not making any changes (don't eat much UPF to begin with), but YANBU to ask the question.

Personally, the UPF's I eat are quite healthy anyway - Tofu for example. I'm not sure if bread counts? But I do like a nice stoneground sourdough from the local bakery with some artisan cashew-based cheese, which is about as processed as you can get, but still healthy IMO. I think they should keep the messaging simple and just advise people to eat more fruit and veg, and less stuff out of packets.

I'm not convinced that UPFs are cheaper though, because something like a portion of fries or some Pringles isn't very satisfying (fast release carbs and no protein), so you end up eating loads more of them, so in terms of nutritional value for money they are quite expensive.

As far as children are concerned, I think there's a problem if they grow up being taught that vegetables are horrible and cheap *rap is a treat. I always loved my veg as a kid, because it was never a big deal. Family meals were simple and fairly cheap, but tasty.

I don't think authentic sourdough is UPF.

ArcticOwl · 07/03/2024 13:51

Not doing anything.

Disabled/Elderly/ND people in the house, and quite frankly do not have the Funds, time, inclination or spare spoons to give a fuck.

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 13:52

Waitingfordoggo · 07/03/2024 13:44

You must surely know that there is a difference between a Big Mac and a piece of steak in terms of nutrition/additives?

I’m not knocking junk food, btw. I eat both steak and takeaway burgers- neither very often. But they are quite a different thing! One is much tastier than the other for starters

What’s the difference?

If you don’t like Big Macs, fine. (FWIW I eat pretty much anything but find couscous unappealing, for example.)

But don’t pretend that what’s in a Big Mac is any different to the ingredients of a steak sandwich.

IcedPurple · 07/03/2024 13:52

While I agree that eating a lot of processed food likely isn't good for your health, the current media hysteria over 'UPF' sometimes just seems like the latest media boogie man. Back when I was but a young lass, it was all about 'E numbers' and how they were responsible for all that is nasty. 'UPFs' seem kind of like an updated version of that.

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 13:56

wherearemywellingtons · 07/03/2024 13:47

Umm…. You do know that steak isn’t an UPF right? Steak in a sandwich on homemade bread won’t contain all the disgusting chemicals and additives that McDonald’s does. You can’t compare the two! I don’t even eat steak - and especially not in a sandwich - but come on.

What disgusting chemicals?

samarrange · 07/03/2024 14:01

The whole idea of ultra-processed food seems to be mostly political. The original paper from Brazil was written by left-wing academics (and for the record, I am a fully paid-up Guardian reader). One of the criteria for seeing if a food is a UPF or not is whether it comes from a multinational company. Apparently knock-off own-brand Oreos are less bad for you than ones made by Mondelez.

But if you take the original definition of processing seriously, almost every manufactured food item is a UPF. Partly this is because they only have three categories: Unprocessed foods (an apple), minimally processed foods (an apple cut into slices and sold in a little bag for kids to eat, although obviously not as part of a Happy Meal at McDonald's, good god no, and won't somebody think of all the plastic), and the rest is ultra-processed. So for example one of those nice small-batch deep-frozen ready meals you can get at the farm shop is ultra-processed as much as a £1.95 chicken'n'rice thing from Iceland.

To give another example, is a portion of chips (potatoes cut up and fried in vegetable oil) minimally processed or ultra-processed? It doesn't seem like a lot of processing to me. Maybe an intermediate category is needed, "More than minimally- but less than ultra-processed" foods.

This leads to problems for the people who take the UPF story politically, because obviously Coco Pops are bad (high in sugar, made by an American company and OMG don't get me started on that company's founder's attitude to masturbation) whereas obviously artisan sourdough is good. So artisan sourdough is now classed as a minimally processed food because nice enlightened people eat it, unlike those poor plebs who eat Kingsmill, even though it has been processed from raw wheat every bit as much. If the UPF thing catches on, there will probably be demands for labelling, and then the process of gaming that can start too. And guess what, the multinationals always win those, because Iceland and Mondelez can buy more politicians' attention that your farm shop's small-batch supplier.

As @IcedPurple says, in some ways this is all just a repeat of existing advice anyway. I don't see much difference between the UPF thing and the "eat your five-a-day", "get more fibre", etc, movements. George Orwell was writing about the tendency of the middle classes to scold their social inferiors for this in 1937 in "The Road To Wigan Pier":

"The basis of their [a unemployed miner's family] diet, therefore, is white bread and margarine, corned beef, sugared tea, and potatoes – an appalling diet. Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even ... saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. ... When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don't want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you. Let's have three pennorth of chips! Run out and buy us a twopenny ice-cream! Put the kettle on and we'll all have a nice cup of tea! ... White bread-and-marg and sugared tea don't nourish you to any extent, but they are nicer (at least most people think so) than brown bread-and-dripping and cold water. Unemployment is an endless misery that has got to be constantly palliated, and especially with tea, the English-man's opium. A cup of tea or even an aspirin is much better as a temporary stimulant than a crust of brown bread."

The net result of all this is to further stigmatise people who eat convenience foods, rather than allow us to question what it about our society that leads to demand for those foods (such as, cooking and shopping take a fuckload of time, and we don't have that because we're working so hard).

Relatedly, we're not even really sure how bad most of these UPFs are anyway. Nutritional epidemiology continues to be a total mess. The researchers might know that people who say they eat their five-a-day live longer, but they don't know how much of that is because of the food and how much is due to other factors that make you better at getting your shit together to eat your five-a-day. Everyone is looking for "the next tobacco", the next thing that will magically fix obesity and early death, and it may not exist. But in the meantime there are pages to fill and breakfast TV shows to be gone on and clicks to be had and merch to be sold.

Hickorydickorydock123 · 07/03/2024 14:01

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 13:56

What disgusting chemicals?

These are the ingredients in a Big Mac. 😬The actual beef patty is fine it’s all the other parts which contain rubbish (bun, sauce, cheese etc).

If you are not reducing your intake of UPF…
If you are not reducing your intake of UPF…
Waitingfordoggo · 07/03/2024 14:01

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 13:52

What’s the difference?

If you don’t like Big Macs, fine. (FWIW I eat pretty much anything but find couscous unappealing, for example.)

But don’t pretend that what’s in a Big Mac is any different to the ingredients of a steak sandwich.

This website lists the ingredients of a Big Mac, including the sauce and the bun:

https://www.bodymindforlife.com/post/big-mac-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly#:~:text=Ingredients%3A%20Enriched%20Unbleached%20Flour%20(Wheat,May%20Contain%20One%20or%20More

Seems like quite a pious website but I’ve linked to it because they’ve gone to the trouble of listing the ingredients, thus saving me a lot of time.

You might not have read my post properly as you seem to think I have something against Big Macs. I don’t. I’ve eaten them many times. In terms of taste, they’re not my favourite takeaway burgers by a long way, but I am not anti-Big Mac. (Although I do always prefer to support independent eateries over multinationals like McD).

Big Mac - the good, the bad & the ugly

McDonald's - the epitome of American fast food. Pretty hard to find a town that doesn't have a McDonald's - and that's not just in America, but most countries. What is it that makes McDonald so popular? Surely it can't be the quality of their food. I c...

https://www.bodymindforlife.com/post/big-mac-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly#:~:text=Ingredients%3A%20Enriched%20Unbleached%20Flour%20(Wheat,May%20Contain%20One%20or%20More

Imicola · 07/03/2024 14:03

We don't really eat much of it to start with, so it doesn't seem necessary.

Menora · 07/03/2024 14:04

Yeah I mean, the reason we are more sedentary is directly related to the same technology that automated food production and enabled mass production on a global scale.

They are not separate.

Those workers who once helped grow, pick, bake/make/sell produce in local areas have been replaced by machinery, chemicals and giant companies mass producing cheap foods with man made additives/emulsifiers and shipping them across the world.

Those workers are not needed, nor are their skills.

You can’t relate obesity rising to lower levels of activity without factoring in what was the causation of the sedentary lifestyle.

Many of our parents are still the generation who grew up pre 80’s (as did some of us) and this will have impacted how we buy, eat and make food as we remember life before a lot of fast convenience foods but the next generation (our kids) will never know that and many will not have any skills to cook or prepare food at all as there is no need to

I am in my 40’s and did not go to a McDonalds until I was in my teens when they really exploded in the 90’s here. We had a bloke who sold meat and fish from a van come round to our estate on Saturdays and we had never had a microwave meal until the later 90’s either when we got our first microwave.

Waitingfordoggo · 07/03/2024 14:05

Bloody good post @samarrange 👏🏻

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 14:08

Hickorydickorydock123 · 07/03/2024 14:01

These are the ingredients in a Big Mac. 😬The actual beef patty is fine it’s all the other parts which contain rubbish (bun, sauce, cheese etc).

Even assuming that list applies to the UK, virtually all of that will be in a steak sandwich and it’s bready enclosure.

And none of it is “bad”.

Hickorydickorydock123 · 07/03/2024 14:10

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 14:08

Even assuming that list applies to the UK, virtually all of that will be in a steak sandwich and it’s bready enclosure.

And none of it is “bad”.

Yes that is the UK. I don’t know whether you’re talking about a shop bought steak sandwich in which case yes, it probably is similar. But not homemade obviously. I try to avoid many of the things in that ingredient list personally but others don’t and that’s their choice.

Bunnycat101 · 07/03/2024 14:10

I am more conscious of it. There have always been some things I’ve never really let my kids have like tinned hotdogs or slush puppies but we do probably have too many things like salami, yogurts, ready meals.

MrsWhattery · 07/03/2024 14:10

I don't think it's 30 different fresh fruit and veg you need every week, but food from 30 plant sources. That includes the plant-derived ingredients in bread, pasta, chocolate, tea, baked beans, herbs and spices, vanilla, etc etc so it's not so difficult to do. It's about getting the full range of micronutrients, vitamins and minerals etc.

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 14:11

Waitingfordoggo · 07/03/2024 14:01

This website lists the ingredients of a Big Mac, including the sauce and the bun:

https://www.bodymindforlife.com/post/big-mac-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly#:~:text=Ingredients%3A%20Enriched%20Unbleached%20Flour%20(Wheat,May%20Contain%20One%20or%20More

Seems like quite a pious website but I’ve linked to it because they’ve gone to the trouble of listing the ingredients, thus saving me a lot of time.

You might not have read my post properly as you seem to think I have something against Big Macs. I don’t. I’ve eaten them many times. In terms of taste, they’re not my favourite takeaway burgers by a long way, but I am not anti-Big Mac. (Although I do always prefer to support independent eateries over multinationals like McD).

That list is American.

And none of it is “bad” food.

I agree there are better burger places. Five Guys is my favourite. 👍

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 14:12

Hickorydickorydock123 · 07/03/2024 14:10

Yes that is the UK. I don’t know whether you’re talking about a shop bought steak sandwich in which case yes, it probably is similar. But not homemade obviously. I try to avoid many of the things in that ingredient list personally but others don’t and that’s their choice.

Edited

Why not homemade? These ingredients are basically trace and are found in flour, riser, etc. A list of “chemicals” in any food is basically meaningless.

Hickorydickorydock123 · 07/03/2024 14:15

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 14:12

Why not homemade? These ingredients are basically trace and are found in flour, riser, etc. A list of “chemicals” in any food is basically meaningless.

I mean that obviously a home made steak sandwich wouldn’t contain those hundreds of ingredients and ones I’m trying to avoid.
So homemade sourdough, a steak and tomato ketchup would contain a lot less ingredients and I know what is in what I’m eating.

JordanPeterson · 07/03/2024 14:15

In carnivore circles it's suggested that if you are out & desperate

To order McDonalds beef patties on their own

While they are cooked with vegetable oils it's seen as a decent takeaway option if you are stuck

The marketing of McDonalds having a 100% all beef pattie has led to many people deluding themselves into believing McDonalds is not so bad for you

I would think McDonalds really pioneered the art of the UPF before the supermarket products took it & ran

This is why you never feel full after a McDonalds burger & fries, there is always room for a dessert & maybe even a side of nuggets too

Swipe left for the next trending thread