If you are not reducing your intake of UPF…

[maybein2022]

… with all the media attention on UPF at the moment and so much research coming out about it. Interested to know. If you’re NOT reducing your intake of it, is it because you’re not able to (finances/accessibility/time), because you don’t want to or don’t think it’s a problem, you and/or your kids are neurodivergent and a lot of ‘safe’ foods are UPF or other reasons.

YANBU: I am reducing mine/my family’s intake
YABU: I am not for reasons listed above (or other reasons)

Wikipedia gives this basic definition of UPF:
‘Ultra-processed food (UPF) is an industrially formulated edible substance derived from natural food or synthesized from other organic compounds.’

A quick rule of thumb for spotting them is that they tend to contain ingredients you wouldn’t find in a normal kitchen. The ‘more than 5 ingredients’ thing isn’t a clear identifier, it’s just likely to be UPF but won’t always.

As I said upthread it’s hard to come up with a 100% perfect,foolproof, non culturally specific definition, but most of the time it’s fairly clear.

This is exactly the same for me and I said a similar thing earlier on this thread. A homemade cake does not (for me) lead to binging/overeating. Having a twix probably would.

Exactly! Not everyone is aware of it. OP talks about "all the media attention". I don't see anything on this outside MN because I haven't gone looking for it.

It is one of these topics that unless you have shown an interest in it it doesn't appear on your media - social/news - streams.

I think this is a good approach and similar to what we do: eat the same but find simpler versions of the ingredients. Rude Health do some brilliant spelt cereal and puffed rice which our dcs have for breakfast and which has no additives. Many children go out the door already full of salt and sugar from their “ healthy” cereal breakfast .

That BBC page is just a re-hash of unscientific ’foodie’ nonsense.

So where are the studies that show that being formula led leads to an increase in food allergies? I'd like to know...

It's because we've changed the structure of the grains or something to be able to farm it more intesively. It's not the same as it was millenia ago...

https://www.nicswell.co.uk/health-news/evidence-of-breastfeeding-increasing-food-allergies-risks-not-clear-cut

Exactly! Not everyone is aware of it. OP talks about "all the media attention". I don't see anything on this outside MN because I haven't gone looking for it.

It is one of these topics that unless you have shown an interest in it it doesn't appear on your media - social/news - streams

I disagree, I feel like I am being bombarded with info that I haven't gone looking for. There have been numerous tv programmes about it, radio shows, book recommendations in my news feeds etc People at work are talking about it.

I am getting really fed up with it, like it is a new concept but a lot of it is basically home cooking with single ingredient food and avoiding a lot of the snacks and drinks that are usually in bright packets trying to get your attention in the supermarket.

Jury is out on whether upf are a ‘thing’ or just another phrase for what we used to call ‘junk food’. I try not to eat much junk - but am not going to obsess over every ingredient because that’s eating disorder territory and I have enough on.

‘Organic compound’ means absolutely nothing except the presence of carbon.

This subject on MN always descends into “Can I buy it in a farmers’ market? Yes, then it’s good. No, then it’s wicked and should be banned”.

That’s not how food, nutrition, biology, chemistry and epidemiology work.

UPF is a made-up name that means nothing and should be viewed with great suspicion.

You can’t beat a fatty steak and decent chips though. With a green salad - dressed - to go with it. (I realise that the dressing will have incorporated many stages of processing, but then I don’t think that matters. And I’ll happily put (processed) salt on my chips.)

Modern industrial (Chorleywood process) bread is a different animal from traditionally made bread. Much more sugar to make the yeast work faster and hence more salt to balance out the flavour of the sugar. It is made much faster and there is a theory that’s the reason for the rise in gluten intolerance.

So according to that BBC article, many (if not most) of my staple foods are UPFs (Tofu, non dairy milks etc.). It's amazing that I'm still alive. Unfortunately they have muddied the waters by including healthy foods in their list, and I certainly won't be paying any further attention to it.

The info about UPF's has been front page online news from time to time, mainstream press, over the last year (ish?)

I stopped drinking unfiltered tap water years ago and cut right back on UPF's a couple of years ago. I've worked in a satellite capacity for food research/producers in the US for years, and learned enough to make me change the way I eat and drink.

However, I learned in the US, as here, that there will always be a chunk of the population who you could give every fact and bit of data to, and they still would claim that their nan was alright and lived to 102, and a general 'can't be arsed to worry about it' mindset. Totally fair enough.

My main point around all this is that everyone's 102 year old grandmas had cleaner air, cleaner water and more nutritious food - as a rule - for the majority of their lives. Soil is depleted, pesticides and herbicides are an issue and water infrastructure cannot cope with modern day compound chemicals. Food is so messed around with that unless you make a real effort to do so, it's pretty hard to eat nutritiously.

The issue with things like UPF’s I will use McDonald’s food for an example is that it is so chemically altered and emulsified that it doesn’t go stale or grow mould, lots of experiments have been done with this kind of food that can survive just fine open to oxygen and normal air and nothing bacterial or any organisms grow on it or eat it.

Processed foods are not bad they actually provide us with safe food

We don’t know how safe it is to consume the amount of emulsifiers we currently are now, which we never naturally would consume this level (even if naturally derived), they are only being added to foods to make them look nice and last longer but they are often a type of gum and we have no idea how they affect your digestion long term. I know mine was very badly affected when I ate a heavy UPF diet

I can’t be arsed to worry about something extra. Just another thing for women to worry about.

im tired.

How’s your diet overall though?
Tofu can be processed rather than UPF but in any case if you are using those things as just one element of a diet that includes lots of unprocessed or minimally processed ingredients it’s probably not going to do you much harm.

I don’t have the head space for it to be honest. As someone previously said, everything is going to kill us in the end, I’ll throw UPFs in the shit bin along with the other thousand and one things that cause cancer etc.

That ‘chunk of the population’ - are they the thick, poor people?

Andrew Huberman is a neuroscientist and he has a really interesting video talk where he goes through a lot of the biological reactions and responses to food.

He has said that emulsifiers like lecithins used in UPFs can disrupt the gut in such a fashion that it can impact fullness signals to the brain.

It's one of the many reasons I believe UPFs just don't affect our body the same way as food processed the way humans can do so without industrial equipment. The exact phrasing was this:

Foods additives are ubiquitous in processed foods. Emulsifiers, detergent-like additives, can disrupt the mucus layer of the GI tract. In animal models, emulsifiers reduce microbial diversity, induce low-grade inflammation, and cause an increase in body fat, higher blood sugar levels and insulin resistance – key markers of metabolic syndrome.
The typical Western Diet (i.e., high fat, low fiber, higher in processed foods) does not provide gut microbiota with many of the key essential nutrients. When you eat complex, plant-based fiber, the gut microbiota produces fermentation by-products, such as short-chain fatty acids (e.g., butyrate). These substances reduce inflammation, help maintain the gut’s mucosal barrier, regulate the immune system, and modulate metabolism along the GI tract. To enhance the health of your gut microbiome, prioritize a diet rich in whole foods, plant-based fiber, and fermented foods.

6 Key Tools to Improve Your Gut Microbiome Health - Huberman Lab

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast It's not about being nasty, we are all capable of confirmation bias and tuning out information that doesn't fit in with our understanding of the world.

Just sat down with a cuppa and read this whole thread.

It's a bit like the smoking thing. Lots of people smoked, research started to highlight health risks and it took a while for knowledge and attitudes to change. And then a while longer for behaviour to change.

I just to think junk food was bad for me as it had too much salt, poor fats and wasn't made with great ingredients. Plus I didn't eat it often, so not an issue. After listening to the Ultra Processed Food book last summer, I was literally horrified to learn that most food you buy in a super market or in chain restaurants is UPF and actually doing you wrong, not only at the point of consumption, but later. On almost every part of your body chemistry. Food companies have no interest in your health; whatever the label may say.

Reading all these posts has made me realise how much we've changed in our attitudes / buying of food in the last 9 months. I'm really proud of what we've done. It's not been that difficult and we are at about 80% UPF free, which we're fine with.

One of the most alarming thing is our kids. They eat so much UPF food and have been eating since they were young. All the grannies that we talk about (mine included), had many many years of low UPF consumption and healthier lifestyles.

One big thing we found: it's not as difficult as you think. Sure it took longer to shop at the beginning, but we got more organised at weekends and try and get some batch cooking done then. Now we normally eat two roasts a week or one roast and one big meal. It's quite quick and gives us tons of left overs for soup, salads, rolls, pastas etc. Now we're saving money and eating healthier too.

Once you learn about UPF, it's difficult to forget. Who wants to be the sickest nation in Europe?

I have cut down UPF. I haven't lost weight but it has changed my taste buds - I had supermarket bread sandwich and ice-cream the other day and neither was enjoyable any more.

I haven't found it costs more, but it has cost me time of course. I love cooking though and bake something most days. It did cost me the upfront cost of a breadmaker.

Most people I talk to about it though, like my Mum, aren't. Because they don't want to. They enjoy the upf food and are happy consuming it.

Things I've made myself which have turned out to be delicious and super easy -

Granola
Lemon curd (delicious mixed with Greek Yogurt)
Ginger nuts
Chicken stock (I don't buy just breasts anymore. Cheaper to buy the whole bird, do a roast, make stock and use that for risotto with chicken leftovers).
"Sorbet" (blend frozen mango chunks with a bit of milk. Also works for berries or bananas).

Everything in moderation is my rule.
If I fancy a fish finger sandwich on cheap white bread I’ll have it.
The following day I’ll eat homemade Minestrone soup.

We’re all going to die anyways.

Plus, the biggest poison out there is alcohol. And yet again it’ll be the women who have to ‘worry’ about it all. We have enough on our plates (pun intended) right now.

It’s nothing like smoking.

It’s just a passing health fad. Like coconut milk. Or Keto or Paleo.