Page 14 | To wonder how much longer it will be before all teachers quit?

FunionsRFun · 2024-03-06T15:09:06+00:00

Been called a bitch and screamed at today. Kids are making no progress because 90% of the leason is dedicated to bad behaviour. My detentions have been taken off the system to make behaviour look better. Why would anyone do this job?

Daisyb1080 · 07/03/2024 21:37

Sk8erboi · 06/03/2024 15:17

I know people only post/speak about negatives but I do worry that I see so many threads on here of teachers slagging their job off.
Maybe the children are picking up on your negative vibes and not engaging fully with you because of it.
My child is year 8 and some of the teachers sound like they don't want to be at work at all going on what I'm told at the end of the day. Some of them sound fantastic and there seems to be a correlation between behaviour and progress and the teachers.

I dont doubt it's a hard and thankless job but there must be some positives surely

Seriously would you be happy being abused all day 🙄

Smartiepants79 · 07/03/2024 21:41

twistyizzy · 07/03/2024 20:51

Your school should set communication boundaries for contacting teachers. DDs private school says teachers will only reply between the hours of 8am-7pm (boarding school so open for longer hours).
Our Yr WhatsApp only tends to be used for lost items of uniform and very infrequently low level grumbles about food, never about teachers. There are generally excellent relations between staff/parents/pupils and is the main reason why we chose the school. Obviously not everything is perfect but then life isn't either!

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I was not expecting a reply til the next day at the earliest!
For most relationships between staff/school and parents are very good. We have absolutely no complaints and are extremely happy.
I would just say that’s it naive and disingenuous to think that working in the private sector is magically amazing. It comes with a different set of stresses and pressures. And many of the same ones. Twatty parents exist everywhere. And this time they’re directly paying your salary and you’re expected to be grateful for their business.

spirit20 · 07/03/2024 21:41

I would bet the government doesn't actually care if more teachers leave, or rather, I would bet they are aware that they cannot do anything to stop them (apart from funding schools better so that class sizes drop).

You only need to look at the recent initiatives such as Oak Academy to guess what their plan is - create a centralised curriculum and have specialists prepare resources that can then be sent to schools where they'll just need a warm body to click through pre-prepared Powerpoint slides, and it won't really matter (at least according to the government anyway...) if the Powerpoint clickers understand the content themselves or not. Many schools have already moved to employing non-teaching pastoral staff on pathetic wages and I bet it won't be long before we see the same thing happen with the people who stand in front of classes.

The government is also already making a huge push to attract people from abroad to train as teachers here, by offering them up to 10k in relocation allowances. In my more cynical moments, I do wonder if their plan is to flood the education system with cheap labour from overseas like they have done with other public services.

Supergirl1958 · 07/03/2024 21:52

*SEND rising. No support, no funding. Teacher/SENCOs trying their best only for parents to say teachers/SENCOs don’t care/wont listen/wont do anything even though we try our best in a broken system

this is one of many things! I say this as a teacher and parent of a send child!!

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 21:58

spirit20 · 07/03/2024 21:41

I would bet the government doesn't actually care if more teachers leave, or rather, I would bet they are aware that they cannot do anything to stop them (apart from funding schools better so that class sizes drop).

You only need to look at the recent initiatives such as Oak Academy to guess what their plan is - create a centralised curriculum and have specialists prepare resources that can then be sent to schools where they'll just need a warm body to click through pre-prepared Powerpoint slides, and it won't really matter (at least according to the government anyway...) if the Powerpoint clickers understand the content themselves or not. Many schools have already moved to employing non-teaching pastoral staff on pathetic wages and I bet it won't be long before we see the same thing happen with the people who stand in front of classes.

The government is also already making a huge push to attract people from abroad to train as teachers here, by offering them up to 10k in relocation allowances. In my more cynical moments, I do wonder if their plan is to flood the education system with cheap labour from overseas like they have done with other public services.

…create a centralised curriculum and have specialists prepare resources that can then be sent to schools…

Oh FFS. The French school system has had a tightly academic centralised curriculum and exam scheme for decades. It used to be said that every French child should be doing the same work at the same time all over the country.

The problem with the English system is pupils’ disruptiveness and a tolerance of it.

It’s not about money. And it’s not about studying Shakespeare v studying rap lyrics.

cardibach · 07/03/2024 21:59

Isitovernow123 · 06/03/2024 20:57

I think we’ll find Labour will be exactly the same as the tories. No difference except for a few words.

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They weren’t last time. I taught before, during and after the last Labour government. It was significantly better in schools under Labour.
Mind you, John Major’s government didn’t spend the last year of it’s tenure salting the earth, so that might make a difference I guess.

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 22:01

cardibach · 07/03/2024 21:59

They weren’t last time. I taught before, during and after the last Labour government. It was significantly better in schools under Labour.
Mind you, John Major’s government didn’t spend the last year of it’s tenure salting the earth, so that might make a difference I guess.

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I see “salting the earth” is the Labour campaign of preparation in case of abject failure in office.

noblegiraffe · 07/03/2024 22:03

They've hardly left the country in good nick, have they?

Anyway the Tories spent most of their 14 years in office blaming the previous Labour government for any of their foul-ups so fair's fair. They've recently switched to blaming the Welsh government or the future Labour government. Anything to avoid taking responsibility for their abject (and obvious to everyone) failure.

Whitestick · 07/03/2024 22:06

cremebrulait · 07/03/2024 19:12

I'll probably get slayed for this...

When is the education system going to train teachers sufficiently to handle the classrooms they're in? If you talk to experts in child psychology, trauma, and behaviour - they're shocked at how schools treat children.

For example: Detention? Old school. Doesn't work. Makes things worse. You've got children who're coming to school hungry, getting picked on online, at school, at HOME, etc etc....they act up in school which is supposed to be a safe place and they get DETENTION?? When they keep getting singled out and and don't have a sense of safety - they're behaviour gets worse.

It is really appalling how teachers are not given sufficient training in psychological and behavioural issues in order to manage the children in their care. It's not their fault. I'm not blaming the teachers.

The reality is that schools are creating pressure cookers when they have kids with problems outside of school, are SEN, and school is not a safe place where they are treated in a way that enables them to learn appropriate behaviours.

I'm at a loss to think what kind of training would equip teachers to prevent behavioural issues with children living in poverty, undiagnosed (and undiagnosed) SEN, trauma etc. Never mind the ones who have no such issues in their background but are just arrogant and disrespectful. What kind of training would stop bad behaviour, that is not reinforced by a plethora of other services (adequate CAHMS support for one), smaller class sizes, consistent behaviour policies and adequate government funding?
Unless you know a training provider for Jedi mind control?

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 22:09

noblegiraffe · 07/03/2024 22:03

They've hardly left the country in good nick, have they?

Anyway the Tories spent most of their 14 years in office blaming the previous Labour government for any of their foul-ups so fair's fair. They've recently switched to blaming the Welsh government or the future Labour government. Anything to avoid taking responsibility for their abject (and obvious to everyone) failure.

Labour has spent forty years blaming Thatcher for everything. With a bit of blame allocated to Major and Cameron along the way.

Let’s face it, when Blair embarked on his academy programme, built using Brown’s eager PFI expansion, it didn’t exactly leave us better off, did it?

noblegiraffe · 07/03/2024 22:10

when Blair embarked on his academy programme, built using Brown’s eager PFI expansion, it didn’t exactly leave us better off, did it?

Using PFI to build new schools at least means those schools aren't now closed due to RAAC.

spirit20 · 07/03/2024 22:13

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 21:58

…create a centralised curriculum and have specialists prepare resources that can then be sent to schools…

Oh FFS. The French school system has had a tightly academic centralised curriculum and exam scheme for decades. It used to be said that every French child should be doing the same work at the same time all over the country.

The problem with the English system is pupils’ disruptiveness and a tolerance of it.

It’s not about money. And it’s not about studying Shakespeare v studying rap lyrics.

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I have no idea why you are so aggressive towards my post, how what you have written addresses the points I made in my post or indeed what exactly the point you think you are making is.

Perhaps take a deep breath, and then try and articulate your point more clearly.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/03/2024 22:13

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 22:09

Labour has spent forty years blaming Thatcher for everything. With a bit of blame allocated to Major and Cameron along the way.

Let’s face it, when Blair embarked on his academy programme, built using Brown’s eager PFI expansion, it didn’t exactly leave us better off, did it?

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Schools were falling apart then. The school l was in had a nice line in massive fungi growing up the wall and rain through every window and ceiling.

Should we have continued to teach our children in these conditions. Labour did something? Which is more than this criminally negligent government have done.

cardibach · 07/03/2024 22:15

Sae3005 · 07/03/2024 10:21

From the parent side of things I can see where some parents are coming from. I've had parents have their children sit for 6 hours in period blood, holding their bladder because they're told not to go. The situation like this happens because of teachers that don't allow children to do normal human things (go to the toilet, change their pad etc). However, the teachers that aren't like this don't deserve to be treat like crap.

No lesson is 6 hours. No child has to do that.
In addition - I have always allowed pupils to go out, but I’ve been in trouble for it frequently because it’s against policy. The policy exists because if vandalism and violence in the toilets, plus pupils arranging to leave lessons at the same time as a friend for a little chat and rest.

FreeIfSnottyNoses · 07/03/2024 22:15

I'm just parking here to say that I've quit and will be freeeeee in 3 weeks!

GUESS WHAT! The "great pay and holiday' weren't enough to make me put up with the toxic shit that I've been putting up with for 12 years. So I've got a job that pays me half the wage, 25days holiday BUT is completely flexible around my young children and understanding I'm bloody happy.

And I was only ever rated as an outstanding practitioner, never put on any support plan etc so I'm leaving my job on a high that I did my best but it's somebody else's turn

Whitestick · 07/03/2024 22:16

Calamitousness · 07/03/2024 05:02

I think teaching is a job which has a lot of negativity and complaining around it because of its very nature. Working with children is always and was always going to be hard. Imagine your work life interactions were mostly with children. Ooft. Yes you have some lovely ones and yes you’ll have some not lovely ones but it only takes one horror to make life unbearable. Unfortunately I don’t think people appreciate that when they choose teaching. I would never want to work with children because I want to have civilised interaction at work with mutual respect. But I do worry some teachers think teaching is going to be something different. There are people out there who are amazing teachers and really can connect and inspire the children and are natural teachers but it’s rare.

Sorry, you think teacher who "really can connect and inspire the children" are rare? I think that's the norm, not the exception. And good teachers aren't just "natural" they put an awful lot of work into their craft.

CaptainMyCaptain · 07/03/2024 22:18

cremebrulait · 07/03/2024 20:25

Don't skip my point which is that teacher's need more training. The world has changed and the system is not preparing teachers for a lot of the issues that exist. Detention is all you have? When I hear about kids in Y3 being put in detention I shake my head because for many kids it will make matters worse. And that's all teachers have. And it seems a lot of teachers are saying the behaviour is unmanageable. It's becoming unmanageable. So my POV is the only way to fix problems is to go to the source.

For starters: are teachers taught ABC Behaviour Model: Antecedent, Behaviour, Consequence?

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Yes. And have been for a long time. Writing it all up takes ages and by that time something else has happened.

Smugglerstop · 07/03/2024 22:28

What's the 'leave teaching and thrive' group please? Been teaching 24 years and I am exhausted. Doing the same as you op; Holding it in then crying quietly in front of my own kids. Used to love it too and thrived. Need to leave. And soon.

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 22:29

spirit20 · 07/03/2024 22:13

I have no idea why you are so aggressive towards my post, how what you have written addresses the points I made in my post or indeed what exactly the point you think you are making is.

Perhaps take a deep breath, and then try and articulate your point more clearly.

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I wasn’t aggressive. Exasperated maybe.

I was commenting on your main point which was an objection to a “centralised curriculum”. It’s not hard to see why that’s no argument at all, since many countries operate centralised curricula without problem.

I’m not sure why you would find that quite so difficult to understand.

cardibach · 07/03/2024 22:29

threatmatrix · 07/03/2024 20:43

Go and work in a private school. It’s so much better and you have the parents total backing.

Did that. Bullied out by a narcissistic little git of a head with nobody to rein him in. Was the end if my career. Mind you, it would have ended sooner if I hadn’t gone there because the head in the school I left was a bully too, so you may be on to something I suppose…

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/03/2024 22:31

CaptainMyCaptain · 07/03/2024 22:18

Yes. And have been for a long time. Writing it all up takes ages and by that time something else has happened.

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I used to have an evil y11 class. I used to have 2 computers set up in that lesson,

One for the lesson and one for on-call. There was so much shit to enter in for an on call l often spent 30 mins just entering data for it. In an hour long lesson. Of 23 kids. No one got any help.

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 22:31

noblegiraffe · 07/03/2024 22:10

when Blair embarked on his academy programme, built using Brown’s eager PFI expansion, it didn’t exactly leave us better off, did it?

Using PFI to build new schools at least means those schools aren't now closed due to RAAC.

Oh right. It was all about the concrete.

Is that a thumbs up for PFI debt?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/03/2024 22:33

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 22:31

Oh right. It was all about the concrete.

Is that a thumbs up for PFI debt?

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👍🏻yep, because it’s not like Thatcher and Major built any new schools to replace the ones that were collapsing is it?

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 07/03/2024 22:33

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/03/2024 22:13

Schools were falling apart then. The school l was in had a nice line in massive fungi growing up the wall and rain through every window and ceiling.

Should we have continued to teach our children in these conditions. Labour did something? Which is more than this criminally negligent government have done.

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Schools fell apart in the Labour 70s every bit as much as in any other decade. The asbestos safety stripping happened mostly under the Tory government.

OneSpunkySnake · 07/03/2024 22:34

youlied · 06/03/2024 15:12

It is actually untenable. I have had enough of the constant derogatory abuse and battle to get anything done. An out of touch SLT doesn't help much either!
The trouble is society thinks that we have an easy life with tons of holidays. The truth is what down time I have I tend to sleep through I'm so exhausted.

I can tell you that I have no illusions about the job being easy. Not the least. Teachers should be paid better, supported, challenged (in good ways). System is broken.