To wonder how much longer it will be before all teachers quit?

[FunionsRFun]

Been called a bitch and screamed at today. Kids are making no progress because 90% of the leason is dedicated to bad behaviour.
My detentions have been taken off the system to make behaviour look better.
Why would anyone do this job?

I loved working with the children. I loved teaching. There were a few rogues that were difficult to deal with and some difficult parents at my school but on the whole, with support from higher up, I could cope with it. What I hated was the target setting culture, the ridiculous expectations of a Head Teacher who knew nothing about young children, the 'divide and rule' strategy with staff and the lack of support with behaviour or parents after a change of management.

I managed to stay in the job until I was 60 but wouldn't recommend it to anyone now. The expectations of some parents as shown on Mumsnet are just unbelievable.

That's awful but it won't be an individual teacher's decision. It will be a whole school decision because some students left to go to the toilet whenever they like/need either disappear altogether or vandalise those toilets rendering them useless for your DD to use at any time.

I think sitting 6 hours is an exaggeration though. There must have been a lunch break, at least, at that time.

It's a mess I agree. But blaming parents for all bad behaviour (which is what I read on here EVERY single time this comes up) is really unhelpful and just creates animosity between parents and teachers which just adds to the toxicity of the system. Of course, sometimes it is the parenting that's the problem - but even 'good' kids can behave badly in certain environments and some of them probably just join in with what they see their peers doing, especially if the lessons are boring and they have little 'bond' with that subject teacher.

It also pushes the problem on to something that cannot be fixed by the government or by the school - and if you're just expecting parents to 'step up' and solve the issue of the terrible behaviour of their teens, that is not going to happen - for many complex reasons. Therefore the system needs a massive overhaul and having more PRUs and more specialist SEN schools (not saying that SEN kids are the route of this, but certainly there are some kids who cannot cope with being in such a loud and over stimulating environment) would help.

In addition, I honestly think a lot of kids whose behaviour is out of control are getting an awful lot of attention (negative but still attention) from the teachers. If a student sits quietly and gets on with their work you're lucky if the teacher even remembers their name.

You sound bitter.

One of the teacher didn't attend tthe GCSE ptions evening, so again, we were told to ccontact them via email.

I think it's fair to expect a response from them via email to discuss.

Yes of course teachers have a life outside work- who doesn't?
But things like open -, parents - and options evenings are part and parcel of the job. It's where you sell the school and ensure that your pupils have the best possible results for their exams. Again a huge selling point for the school to attract a certain type of pupil.

you know to reduce the numbers that swear, spit and throw things at you

What a sad point of view of children!
When I trained to be a primary teacher I went into it as I wanted to spend my day with children and the joy they bring rather than whiny, grumpy adults.

‘a civilized interaction with mutual respect’ you really have a low opinion about of children and young people. Very adultist comments.

And you’re wrong if you think most teachers don’t consider this when they decide to teach.

DS is a HOD in a shortage subject at a large school in London. In the main he loves his job and the students, some of the parents, not so much! His school has a strict discipline policy and a very supportive SLT. Together these things make his job easier than it is for many teachers who have to work in crap schools and who get little or no support from either management or parents.

*Calamitousness · Today 05:02

I think teaching is a job which has a lot of negativity and complaining around it because of its very nature. Working with children is always and was always going to be hard. Imagine your work life interactions were mostly with children. Ooft. Yes you have some lovely ones and yes you’ll have some not lovely ones but it only takes one horror to make life unbearable. Unfortunately I don’t think people appreciate that when they choose teaching. I would never want to work with children because I want to have civilised interaction at work with mutual respect. But I do worry some teachers think teaching is going to be something different. There are people out there who are amazing teachers and really can connect and inspire the children and are natural teachers but it’s rare*

No, most teachers love the kids. It’s the rest of the job that pisses them off and makes them ‘so negative’

I think teaching is a job which has a lot of negativity and complaining around it because of its very nature. Working with children is always and was always going to be hard.

I have been a teacher for 29 years. The job has changed dramatically. Anyone who's been in teaching for a couple of decades or more would tell you that.

Yes, there have always been difficult kids, but the level and amount of difficult behaviour has increased enormously, particularly over the last 10 years, and even more sharply since covid.

But, more than that, the expectations of what teachers do have changed, leading to an excessive amount of hoop-jumping, cynical initiatives which don't help children, and budget cuts which make everything harder.

I work in a lovely school with very well-behaved kids. I am a lot more stressed and over-worked than I was in the school where I worked early in my career, which had worse-behaved kids. Yes, it would be even worse if I had my current workload but also badly-behaved kids, but the point is that it's not just about it being hard to work with kids.

So, as someone who 'would never want to work with children', @Calamitousness, I'm wondering what you think qualifies you to tell us how obvious it is what's wrong with the job, and why you're so confident that you know it was always like that.

Doesn't happen to me or my colleagues, either. And we have the luxury of being able to withdraw our service from clients if they are abusive or violent.

No-one should have to put with abuse like that in the workplace.

Apologies to any teacher offended. I merely find many of complaints are around children and behaviour. I know I wouldn’t have wanted to work as a teacher and do apologise for any assumptions which are incorrect. Children were always a mixed bag of abilities and behaviour is all I meant in reference to those complaints around children. Targets/reduced staffing etc are a way of life in current climate and I agree that can make a teachers load more onerous. Again. Sorry teachers. I agree a badly written post which was done in the middle of the night and didn’t convey what I meant to very well at all.

C

Sorry if I overreacted, @Calamitousness . Busy day. Taking a short MN break before settling down to my marking turned out not to improve my mood... I need to re-hide the Education board and AIBU.

That's so sad. We had some amazing day trips when I was at school.

But having heard some of the accounts of bad behaviour in this thread, I'm not sure I'd want to take a party of kids on a boat trip on the Thames, or a tour round HMS Victory.

And the risk assessments alone would be onerous!

It won't be long. Someone shared something on Twitter today. It was from a teacher detailing all the abuse and rudeness he was having to put up with on a daily basis.

How low can society and lack of discipline go?

I am sure things are worse now but it was already pretty bad when we were at secondary in the mid-late 80's. Kids were smoking all over the place, playing truant was rife, gluesniffing and stealing chemicals from the lab to try out, after school planned fights, lunchtime fights, kids throwing chairs, bullying was constant, a lot of messing around in class, constantly someone sent outside to stand outside the door for 5 minutes, people being sent to the head, whole class detentions, no one did any homework or we copied each others, eating in class, answering back.

The only real difference I can see is that I don't remember any actual physical violence towards teachers.

We had a really scary deputy head who could be heard absolutely yelling and losing the plot at some poor kid sent to his office at various times throughout the day. We were ALL scared of being sent to him and that's what made us reel it in ultimately.

Does each school need a really scary disciplinarian figure to lay down the absolute law?

Does each school need a really scary disciplinarian figure to lay down the absolute law?

Well, on here, if a parent even suspects their child’s teacher has raised their voice at them, there are cries to complain to the head/governors/Ofsted and complaints that no teacher should ever need to shout as they should be able to instantly create a cosy fuzz of tranquility without noise, threats, rewards or sanctions and if they can’t, they shouldn’t be doing the job.

Maybe the children are picking up on your negative vibes and not engaging fully with you because of it.

The most absurd thing I've ever read on Mumsnet. And I've been an active member for 10+ years. Poster must have a very badly behaved child - it's a mystery why the child is badly behaved- must be the teachers' fault 😂

@OnceinaMinion Sorry what's a MAT?

Multi academy trust.

Got to remember certain types of schools may have more challenging pupils e.g. SEMH

I looked to train as a teacher - got some work experience in a school - then promptly left and cancelled my PGCE application.

Other jobs are easier. So I've kept to other jobs.

A really bad Head whose only interest was what she would wear the next day. She used one of the Senior T.As has her PA. She had no interest in the children or the staff. One of her favourite sayings that was thrown around at every meeting was " my pension was sat there waiting for me". She allowed one member of staff to basically bully and bad mouth other staff, children and parents. The final nail was when she out and out lied about a child and have him removed from the school. The woman should never have been allowed near chidren.

I was a teacher and had to cope with bad behaviour - from a minority of students but even two or three in one secondary school class can wreck a lesson.
However, when I went into teaching I was already a mum with three teenage sons (all who did well) and my instinct was that these ‘difficult’ pupils were unhappy.
Now I foster teenagers and see that I was correct. What we need is a different way of dealing with the disengaged students. Often traumatised, these young people may have low self esteem and are behind in their work. They would rather have an excuse to walk out of a lesson, then do some work as it’s easier. The vaping trend isn’t helping either. For many of them, school is their safe place where they meet their friends.

Disengaged pupils need help and understanding but they shouldn’t be able to undermine a lesson and prevent the rest of the class learning.
Teachers need to be able to do their job with the Majority of pupils who are there to learn. It really is a stressful, difficult job which takes hours of work every day.

I haven’t got answers except to say in my teenage years you could work for half a day at 13 (I used to pack car parts in Birmingham); now it is hard for young people to work until they reach the age of 18. Academic learning doesn’t suit them all. I have looked after young people who were difficult at school but were transformed when they got jobs and earned money. Maybe apprenticeships from age 14 should be available.
A big thank you to all our teachers. You do an amazing job, even on days when it doesn’t feel that way. Honestly, write down how many pupils you have taught in one day and then write down how many caused problems. It just feels like you are hitting your head against a brick wall; most pupils are fine.

It's happening already.

Covid - lots of experienced teachers quit or retired.

My husband is a senior teacher and he is the recruit. There is no-one out there.

ODFOD. Bitter!

sure, part and parcel of the job. Night after bloody night - parents evenings twice a year for exam years, once a year for others, teaching from years 7 to 13. Options veinings, open evenings, observations, book scrutinies, learning walks…Sell the school, sure, it sells itself, given the quality of our provision, the reports, the exam results, the fact we go the extra mile and then some. I don’t particularly care about what type of pupil we attract - I give a shit about all kids, and want all of them - including the ones who spit, swear and throw things - to get the best possible education they can, to see that there are alternatives, to open minds, to support and improve outcomes now and in the future. That’s the job. Not hour after hour of pointless paper pushing, justifying my subject’s place on the curriculum, worrying about finding replacement staff when the resignations inevitably come in, children and parents who think nothing of complaining when you haven’t responded to the email a sent at midnight by 8:30am, constant budget reductions, no SEN support…..yeah, just about my bitterness and not a frustration that our children, for a myriad of reasons, are not getting the education they deserve. Fluff around the edges.