How should I play this? DD driving me mad!!

[PheobeBebe]

DD (13yo) has had trouble keeping her room tidy for a long time. It's just a huge mess, I have hurt myself going in there in the past as she has dropped earring or needles on the floor and not picked them up. The room struggles with mould around the window but she doesn't even open the curtains properly and has plants all over her windowsill making it extremely hard to clean. We have spoken about what would help her etc, she always says she wants us to ask her to tidy and not raise voices as when anyone gets angry it makes her push back, which I have stuck to (and when it's gotten really bad or gone on for long times I have warned her that I was starting to feel angry without raising voices etc so that we don't get to that point). She NEVER tidies the whole room, just a section and says that she's made an effort and it's better than it was.

Well, she wants to go on a summer camp related to her hobby. It's £550 so not a small sum. We initially said no due to the cost, but have decided she can use some of the savings we have for the kids as it would be a good experience and will help massively with the skill involved in the hobby. Today I told her that she can go IF she tidies her entire room and keeps it tidy for a month. I thought she would bite my hand off, jump up and down with joy and thank me! Boy was I wrong. She was quiet during the discussion and after I left she could be heard crying in her room! I tried to give her a cuddle and ask her what was wrong and keep the whole thing calm, but I must admit I got pretty pissed off and had some words with her as it was quite clear she wants the trip with no strings. She wasn't argumentative, but I told her she was being bloody entitled to think she can just have £550 while not doing the one thing we ask of her. I have offered to help her numerous times, I even tidied her floor and cupboard for her a couple of weeks ago which took me 2/3 hours - all she had to do was tidy up her make up and desk. Needless to say it looks like I never did anything now. I offered to help her today more than once but she insists she doesn't want assistance.
I'm really peeved that what I thought was a reasonable / nice gesture has created WW3. AIBU to feel annoyed with her? And to stick to my guns and say if it isn't completely tidy (and kept tidy) that she isn't going on the camp?

She’s a teenager, you close the door and stay out of her room. She either lives in a pig sty or tidies it up herself but keeping it clean shouldn’t be linked to things that could be beneficial for her.

My teens had to clean their rooms every day!
clothes in the wash every day too.
if they took dishes upstairs, they had to be brought back down as soon as food was finished especially if I was doing dishes, if not, then no dishes upstairs for a week.
When I washed clothes I used to put them away for them because I didn’t want them just left out, also rubbish had to be brought down and put in a bin, if I found rubbish in their rooms, then they wouldn’t be allowed a snack upstairs,
Thry got their own homes now and they’re all immaculate and they clean every day just like I do

I wonder if you put made it a routine to tidy and clean her room with her eg every Sunday morning, would it help?

That’s what I do with DC but kids are so different. DC1 won’t even make the bed in the mornings while DC2 is fastidious about it!

I remember a good friend being absolutely shocked when she moved in with her then boyfriend. His idea of cleaning the toilet was to pour bleach into it, wait five minutes, flush it. Job done! He had no idea he was supposed to use a toilet brush, clean the sea and lid and clean the outside of it too.

Maybe a compromise on anything hazardous or genuinely dirty being dealt with (dirty plates to be moved every couple of days down to the kitchen, mould dealt with, washing chucked into a basket etc.) and try not to sweat the smalL stuff. I have ADHD, diagnosed in early adulthood- used to drive my mom crazy the piles of stuff on my floor but I knew where everything was at least!
Even now as an adult, she sometimes comes over to my house if I need help dealing with tidiness as I get very disorganised easily and it ends up seeming insurmountable. The crying about it makes it seem less like a lazy surly teen and more a girl who is overwhelmed and doesn’t know where to start and doesn’t want to miss her trip.

I am still messy to this day, I know I’ll never live in a showhome-style place where everything is neat but I’ve grown to accept it. Maybe this could be it?

@Geebray manipulation? Oh come on. Life is about doing things in exchange for other things. Kids sometimes need a carrot to motivate them and that’s ok. To call it manipulation is totally unreasonable.

It’s crazy how many people think a teen having a reasonably tidy room is a massive ask? OP I think YANBU at all. No wonder some people struggle when they start work when they’ve been used to ‘having a tidy room’ being a mammoth and unreasonable ask. You’ve offered her huge amounts of support so if it’s an ADHD thing you have tried to help.
Its no bad thing to have high expectations of your kids especially when they’re perfectly reasonable!

She just sounds like a typical teenager, and not nearly as extreme as many. I realised it was stressing me out far more to keep nagging my daughter to keep her room clean, let alone tidy, and in the end I gave up, and just blitzed it myself when it got overwhelmingly disgusting. I was very strict with some things with my daughter, and imposed sanctions when I thought it was appropriate, but for the sake of me spending a couple of hours once a month to get her room habitable again, I decided that there were far more serious things to worry about.

Stick to your guns, it sounds awful in there

Even if she reluctantly agrees - don’t do it.
She will not keep to her side of the bargain, and you will be in a position of a deposit you feel you can’t afford to lose. So you’ll give in… and that’s worse.
This bargain chip is far too high stakes.

I’d leave her to it, apart from you having to wipe the condensation. Put shoes on when you walk over the needle challenge floor. It’s just silly to focus on being “injured”.

If you’re not the type to let it slide - then keep it very immediate. Room tidy for 10 mins every day, from a list, and no sewing or phone allowed until it’s done.

It’s crazy how many people think a teen having a reasonably tidy room is a massive ask?

It's more that it's just not worth having a big argy-bargy about. Save that for the important stuff.

Google doom boxes

She needs doom boxes

Basically shove everything that's on the floor in these boxes preferably clothes in one, paper in another, arts and crafts in another etc and that's the job done for the day. Then she/you can go through each box little by little. Even say do 5 items a day.

Plenty of adults struggle with being tidy so not unusual for teens to struggle too

She can't get in to vacuum.
Should she let the whole room get disgusting and dirty because the daughter is too lazy to do it.
Everyone should pull their weight in the House and work as part of a team.

Learning to be clean and tidy needs to be started when your young.
When growing up it was mine and my Sisters job to vacuum once a week. I did up and she did down.
You did it. None of this attitude like there is today. Parents were former and you did what was expected of you even if you didn't like it.
Good grounding.

My dd had a room that was often a total mess as a teen. She was an amazing student, very involved in activities/ charity work/ babysitting etc..anything except tidy her room. My dc were never allowed take food upstairs that it wasn't dangerous just chaotic. My only way out was if she asked me to drop her to a friend l would say sure..just let me know when your laundry is sorted/ bed made bin emptied etc and she would tear into it. It's like she could only work to a deadline.
Maybe forbid food and pop in yourself and open the windows so it's not a health hazard and generally ignore.
I would encourage her more to make some of the money for the camp elsewhere..she sounds sweet growing her own plants/ having an interesting hobby etc so all is not lost.
My dd grew up to be an extremely responsible adult so it was just a phase.

Same here, my room from 13-17 looked as though it had been ransacked but at least it was hygienic. No food of any kind was allowed upstairs, nor any drinks other than water.

I'd honestly encourage her to go for the bare minimum: no mould, no needles on the floor.

I think op, maybe you need to help her with a little list that gets done daily. And maybe you do it together with music and try to make it fun.

I really struggle at times with motivation when it comes to housework and when things build up (which they can really quickly because I don't finish tasks start to finish) it can feel extremely overwhelming. For me the best thing to do is take 15 mins every night and do a whiz round. Rubbish in bin, clothes in hamper or drawers, bed made and window opened. Surfaces tidied quickly. Dishes to the kitchen.

Really that's all she actually needs to do daily and she'll be on top of it even if she's messy during the day. So I'd be inclined to write that list up for her and then make a playlist with her of really fun music that puts her in a good mood and then you blast the music and just keep her company while she does her tasks. Hopefully it'll stop it getting overwhelming, it'll teach her that little and often is the way to go and it'll stop her feeling overwhelmed knowing where to start.

The other thing I'd consider is if she has too much in her bedroom. When I start to feel out of control with the laundry I know it's time to do a run to the charity shop, the less you have on a surface the quicker it is to tidy. So I'd also try to get her to make some donations and then get her to decide what charity she wants to support with her donations so she's invested in it? I'd make sure she's got enough storage solutions for her crafts and hobbies etc.

This.

when I was that age if treats or any offers came with “strings” I’d just say I didn’t want to do it.

not because I actually didn’t want to, but because I was so scared of failing and having that thing I really wanted yanked away again I’d rather not have it in the first place.

she may feel that she can promise to keep her room tidy, but if she misses a day or is in a rush and it gets on top of her again she will lose her trip. It’s nearly 6 months of constant anxiety that you will find fault and she won’t get to go.

it’s very easy to get lost in a job, especially if she’s type A. If she is she may feel if it’s not perfectly tidy it’s a mess, and perfectly tidy is almost impossible so she doesn’t bother.

honestly I missed out on so much. Ski trips, birthday parties, once in a lifetime holidays, because it was always “if you do this”. Kids brains work differently to adults.

Her room, don't get involved

I think this is really good advice. I'm not sure I would ultimately link the trip to the tidy room if it's something she truly struggles with. I think it would be better to say that some of the plants will have to go ect.... so you are holding that boundary but in a more natural way.

I had so many screaming matches with my mother about my bedroom. At the end of the day it's not worth it. As an adult now with 3 kids I have systems in place to keep the house clean and reasonably organised. But I realised nobody had really spent time teaching me how to clean and organise - she was just being cross and shaming me.

At the end of the day of all the things she could be doing, keeping her room in a mess is mild and very normal teenage behavior: It's not worth damaging your relationship over. I would help her in the ways suggested to keep her room safe. Explain that you don't want her to be sleeping with the mold because you love her and you get upset because you want to keep her safe and healthy and you are happy to help with that.

I just think, getting into tricky teenage years, that how we deal with these small issues - being open with them, maintaining a good relationship, showing them that you are on their side while still holding boundaries- is important groundwork for when you are dealing with more complex issues.

Her health (black mould) - her mum's house - her mum MUST get involved. Mould is horrendous for health, and it's effects are not immediately obvious.

The OP's house has black mould growing around the window, how on earth is this acceptable? The DD is sleeping in there breathing that in.

Some things in this house are non-negotiable like teeth brushing, clean clothes and tidy rooms. I made sure everything had a place to live including clothing that had been worn for a short time and could be worn again. When my children were in primary school they had a morning routine tick list which included folding back the duvet to air the bed and opening the window to air the room. If primary school children can do this teens can. You need to find what will work for her.

For everyone saying they grow out of messy rooms what if they don't? My son is at uni and has shared spaces that had mould growing on food, it massively impacts other people, if you cannot keep a bedroom clean and tidy at home then you are not going to keep a bedroom, kitchen or bathroom clean and tidy elsewhere.

I would tell her that we are blitzing the room together, she clearly cannot do it herself and then daily I would be stood over her whilst she tidies it, this then becomes habit and routine. It is hard work now because tidying for 10 minutes a day means you don't have to tidy for an hour on a weekend. `

Is black mould really all that dangerous?

Yes it is!

Vinegar and bicarbonate for good measure will remove it.

I was like this all my life. Turns out at 47 years old it’s a side effect of ADHD. The process is just too overwhelming but I would always get moaned at and I would want to do it myself and achieve it but I just couldn’t. It was very frustrating.

Yes all mould is unhealthy and can cause respiratory illnesses or trigger coughs and allergies. Some types of mould are more dangerous than others. It's definitely not a "do nothing" situation. It is also just a life lesson - we all need to learn to brush our teeth, eat our veg, get enough sleep and keep our homes clean enough so they are healthy.

Put aside a day. With her agreement empty her room completely, wash everything, and ensure that everything that goes back in has a place to live.

Take photographs of each area of her room and put them in that area of the room so that she can see them.

Put 15 mins in each of your calendars each evening so that you can help to support her in making the room look like the photographs. She may find the visual reminder and support helpful and not feel overwhelmed.