Toilet training before school

[jackass232]

I saw a piece on the news last night about how there's been a big rise in the number of children starting school not fully toilet trained. I think the figures were something like 13% of kids in any reception class are not fully trained and that teachers are on average spending 2.5 hours per day dealing with toileting accidents and issues.

Obviously this is quite shocking (I expected to see a MN post about it actually, sorry if I missed one) but I can sympathise as my ds started reception with issues surrounding pooing - mostly holding onto it, becoming constipated and having leaks. I remember always packing spare pants for him and I know the TA had to help him change a lot. This wasn't anything to do with laziness on my part. He was just hard to toilet train and continued with these issues for quite some years. The school was always lovey about it but I felt very embarrassed and upset on behalf of my son.

I feel the general narrative behind this story is that parents just can't be arsed to toilet train their kids and are happily sending them in and letting teachers deal with them. But that's not always the case. I know it's a big drain on schools but what's the answer? And why has there been such a rise?

To answer a PP most nurseries prefer children to be toilet trained than changing nappies and are happy to work with the parent with toilet training. It doesn't take long if everyone is consistent.

I started toilet training at 2, tried for 6 months however ds would not pick any of it up and was causing us distress.
Gave it a break until he was 3 and he started getting it around 3.5 but still having lots of accidents. Started school nursery and seemed to pick it up very quickly then and was trained after 2-3 months.
I think some kids take longer to pick it up and it also helps if they see their peers doing it, his old nursery didn't really encourage toilet training (never reminded to use toilet), at school there are regular reminders.

A contributing factor could be that children start school far too early in the UK.
In the 90s, in my area, children started school the term after their 5th birthday. They didn't all start in September. DC1 was born late December and started school the January after their 5th birthday. They were toilet trained, knew alphabet and phonetical sounds, colours, numbers, had learnt to share and mix with peers, could read and write their name, change into PE kit and tie their school tie. All learnt at their 2.5 hours a day at pre school/ nursery.
I did work and DC went to child minder.

Other than children with extra needs, physical or otherwise, a 3+ year old in nappies in the day time is completely inappropriate and British society has lost sight of that. I live abroad and not one of the children in my 3 year old's infant school wears nappies.
It's always touted out 'oh if you wait till they're older you won't have to train them at all' - well yeah, but surely our job as parents is to teach our children valuable skills, not just wait until they figure it out on their own.

18 months? You amateurs. I trained my baby to toilet alone at six weeks old. She also wiped her own bum and installed her own toilet using only a DIY plumbing guide she found in the local library.

Anything later than that is just lazy IMO.

Parents know they have to potty train. So why some refuse to do any research and leave it until it’s too late is beyond me. This isn’t a child failure, it’s a parenting one.

I don't think that's fair. The NHS website lists the various signs of being "ready" and states that potty training is likely to be easier if you want until your child is at the last stage. DD1 got to that stage and was potty trained at about 27 months. But if a child isn't at that stage and the NHS doesn't list any issues with waiting, then I don't think a parent is wrong to go with that. They could quite reasonably assume that there's no problem.

We’ve been trying since DS was 2 - he’s 4 next month. Currently on the waiting list to see an urologist. Please don’t tar all parents with the same brush…

All 7 of my children were fully toilet trained day and night before age 2. It took 1-2 weeks to train them all before they were dry with only the very odd accident. For that reason I don't believe the excuses of they're not ready as that would mean I must have just been really lucky to just have 7 children who all toilet trained fine at 18 months old (not likely), plus the fact that babies were toilet trained very young many years ago and it was the done thing back then. Certainly not always but I think it's mostly down to lazy parenting, the child has accidents over the first few days so parents give up and say they're not ready as they can't be bothered cleaning up and dealing with it and/or they think it'll be easier to do at age 2.5 or 3 when having a child that big in nappies seems very strange to me. I wouldn't want to sit in a wet nappy so I don't want my children to, as soon as they are able to understand (12-18 months) then toilet training should be started in my opinion. Again, let me say that I know some children will have real difficulties and i'm not talking about these children.

Once children hit 4 or 5 it becomes an absolute pain in the arse having them in nappies still. It definitely is not a convenience. Having to figure how to change them when out and about, not being able to do things like clubs, the expense of the nappies for bigger sizes etc.

My 7 year old is still in nappies. We have worked our arses off and are just baffled. The support is minimal, it is dominating our entire lives and it is holding him back massively. We fly to florida in August and trying to figure how to change him on a plane is interesting!

I'd also want to know what that 13% consists of. Children in nappies or does it include children having accidents?

Sorry, one final point. The level of complex needs in mainstream schools now is unbelievable. It is very common to have 2-3 non-verbal, severe complex needs children in a reception class of 30. That is 6-10% of a class before any others with slightly lower or different needs

I tried. Really really hard. For months and months making just enough progress that I didn't want to "give up". All I did was end up causing all sorts of long term problems becasue after a year of constantly clearing up accidents I unthinking started discouraging drinking before car journeys, social events etc. Started at 22 months and only got reliable dry at 6. No SEN or any other issues.

My ds went to playgroup in 1999 at 2.5 and he was accepted then as long as he was toilet trained which he was

He went to school term before he was 5 so it must of changed in 2000

Hey MIL is that you? Lol!

Not sure how reliable the article is. But I'm am sure that the majority of adults are toilet trained and everyone gets there eventually. I tried with my DS at 2, 2.5, 2.7, 3. And it took weeks, eventually he fully got there at 3.2 years but had issues with constipation/withholding his wee/poo and is waiting a SEN assessment for other reasons.

MIL apparently potty trained all 3 boys under the age of 2. Perhaps modern parents are lazy or perhaps today's family set up is more likely to consist of 2 working parents versus a SAHM (like MIL) typically seen 40 years ago. Today's parents are likely to be older and both working, so maybe that's a factor. I know parents who have attempted potty training during the holiday period because it is realistically the only time they can.

My siblings and I got potty trained before we turned 3. All my friends of the same age did too. Most mums were house wives back then and had the luxury of time to do these things over the summer time. My MIL said that she did the same thing for her children back then. Her children were fully potty trained by the age 3.
PT takes time patience and consistency, something that modern families lack if both parents work and in laws are not around to support with potty training.
It is very tough getting the right balance for working families.

Disposable nappies.

Some really judgement replies here.
My DD is 4.5. Started potty training at 2 years, under her own initiative. Didn't want to wear nappies and wanted to use the potty.
All this time later we are still having multiple wet accidents a day. Not through lack of trying. She floods her clothing despite drinking two sips of water.drs not interested cos she's 'not old enough to worry about it'. But every other parent, and now the news, make out it's always the parents fault for being lazy. Work nearly full time and seem to spend the rest of my life getting her to the toilet.

Sorry you're experiencing this. You're right about it dominating your lives. Spend so much time making sure I've got enough clothes and wipes, have the potty, near the toilet etc. How we're going to manage a long journey. Now even DD worries about what happens if she has an accident (as in if we're out or doing something, not the reaction from us)

May I ask how you got to the point of being on the list to see a urologist? Is the waiting list long?

Had my first kid clean and dry day and night by nearly two. Going to do the same with this next one. It’s just so much easier long term.

I think all this advice about kids being toilet trained at 18 months does parents a disservice. I think people read this and think they'd better hurry up and start and end up rushing things and stressing themselves out if the child doesn't get it immediately. I know several people who tried to train their kids before 2 and ended up with issues for ages. Certainly a friend of mine claimed her dd was trained from 2 but she really wasn't. Also who is actually taking the statistics for kids in nappies? No one official ever asked me. As a pp said as long as a child is dry before school starts it really is not an issue if they are 2 or 3 etc.

That being said you do need to dedicate some time to it and if you work full time and have used all your annual leave allowance for your nursery aged children being unwell, then it's a problem. I trained ds1 when I was on maternity leave with ds2. With ds2 I'd taken the week off for ds1's half term anyway. Neither of them had shown a particular interest in getting out of nappies, I just waited until they were just over 3, picked a particular date that worked for me and told them no more nappies during the day. Ds1 got the gist of it within a week and ds2 was less than that.

Another thing is that some people think they should wait until their kids show an interest but the reality is, disposable nappies are not uncomfortable so why would they want to stop playing to go to the toilet? That's certainly how my kids thought 😂

I do think it is over complicated by lots of difference advice and methods given out and obsession over "readiness".

ive never seen any reputable source claim you should train overnight because it’s a hormonal change. Dont put pressure on parents where it’s not needed. Its not necessary to night train.

Parents bought into the bs that kids ‘have to be ready’ instead of doing the work. Yes, it’s easier for the parents but not necessarily right. My boy was trained at 18 months. But if I were to listen to the being ready theory, supposedly boys are harder to train and train later??

If there were no disposable nappies and parents would have to launder nappies and clothes, the average toilet training age would go right back down;) it's convenience

Absolutely not judging as my disabled child was not toilet trained until.10
Is your DD not aware of the sensation of needing to go ,has she had tests,etc ?