son in law and social class

[highlandslady]

Hello, I am posting for the first time and do realise I'm being silly about this, so I do feel.a bit embarrassed. Please be gentle !

My oldest daughter (30) has married and had a son with her DH, (44). She is the first of our three girls to get married and we adore our grandson, and like SIL very much too.

However I'm getting in a tizz about things and worrying. They are having a wedding party to celebrate their marriage (small family affair in Scotland which we encouraged). They just had a small registry office wedding after their son was born, so this is a chance to celebrate

Now however his family are getting involved , it's becoming bigger. They are much wealthier, posher, and higher educated than we are.
Even though my SIL has been nothing but kind, generous and thoughtful with us, I do feel strange about the difference between us.
He is obviously older than my daughter and people have made comments about her being a golddigger ( small village with gossips) . He brought us things like some lovely champagne as a present - he lives in France - and my sisters made a slightly sarcastic comment . Recently we had a village fundraiser for a charity appeal which he donated a significant sum to, meaning we reached our goal. He did this anonymously but it was easy to tell it was him, and afterwards he made a comment playing it down and suggesting it was nothing - well, it was months worth of mortgage payments and utilities to me. He also recently offered (via my daughter) to help my other daughter with childcare fees as she is really struggling. He did this very discreetly and politely but it made me feel like I can't provide for my family.

I also feel very intimidated by his parents who are quite cool, snobby and seem to look down on us. His father held a very, very senior position in his career.

My son in law is only a few years younger than me (so 'sil' sounds strange ) but has a very impressive career, beautiful house, top first class oxbridge degree.

I've always felt confident but for some reason all of this is shaking me.

forget the money, it’s irrelevant, he seems very kind and caring and that’s the most important thing. He sees you as an extension of his wife, which is natural.

@Garlickit’s point is a good one. All new social situations should be approached via ‘Do I like them?’ not the other way around. There’s usually someth8ng to appreciate.

I think you are being abit of an inverse snob. Be yourself - cheerful warm polite and welcoming. Stop thinking about the class / money thing. See my teen Dd doing this with her best friends family. Yes they are stratospherically posh and rich but they adore her and it doesn’t matter.

I’ve been around since they met, and I can tell you, it’s been an education!

Just back off, relax and be happy for your daughter.

Remember that it is your daughter's life.
Respect her choices, welcome her husband but keep your own independence so that you feel comfortable to live your life, your way.

Carefully consider any offers of assistance for your other daughters in case they should lose their sense of power over their own destiny. Be thankful for introductions to career opportunities but make sure they put the work in for their own self worth.

The wedding, you should leave it up to your daughter to navigate with her husband and his family. Show up and congratulate.

Of course SIL's family will protect family wealth. That is sensible; don't see it as personal or against your daughter..
Importantly your SIL seems kind so that is great.

You are all fortunate to have a SIL who is thoughtful and generous. Thank him, rejoice and keep wholesome and healthy.

You are Carole Middleton he is prince William 😀

you're getting an unfortunate mn skelping and I think you’re being misrepresented
it is understandable to feel a bit off sorts that plans for a small,informal do are now being revised into a big event
There are obvious gulfs in income and lifestyle and his large donation only heightened that . As kind and spontaneous as it was it obviously draws attention and comment
I don’t think you’re an inverted snob, I think you’re a mum trying to make sense of negotiating new in-law and new son in law.

Also my other daughters might be a bit jealous of their sister's new life - able to stay at home and have anything she wants.

I would strongly encourage her to continue in whatever career she was in, before she got married.

It's all too easy to lose yourself in a marriage, especially if you're not the one earning the money.

Excellent advice. Dont give up career to be a rich wife.

Typically you only really have to deal with the other family at the wedding and for babies. It will be a blip on your proverbial radar.

You do you with confidence and let them do them. It’s not a contest…competition.. or anything else.

Your daughter loves you…you love your daughter…he loves your daughter… job done.

Although I would have a sharp word with her sisters if they are a getting owly… Once and then leave it.

@highlandslady

sounds to me like a few things are going on

comments from locals - that small village life right? Whoever she was with people would have something to say even if he was from the next village along

him splashing the cash - is a bit of a faux pas from him. The charity donation I think ok, offering to pay another daughter childcare fees is an overstep and makes me think he’s playing a bit of a Disney prince role?

but making introductions to help with career opportunities is literally how the whole middle class do things. Those informal networks can take you a very long way, and it’s good of him to bother.

his family having a say in the wedding- understandable and with a big ish class gap it’s tricky to keep everyone feeling comfortable. A local Scottish wedding probably would be uncomfortable for them. They likely have been to friends children’s wedding and want to reciprocate at a similar standard. But their standard is going to make some of your side uncomfortable. Not a right answer there.

pre-nup type arrangements are standard in wealthy circles, I’d advise your daughter to embrace that and have an upfront conversation about finances. She should get some
independent advice. And you said he’d been married before? So from his parents point of view there’s already been a divorce settlement which may be expensive.

does he have other children? Is your daughter a step mum?

Which brings me to the most important thing - the power imbalances between them. A big wealth and age gap is a double whammy. Does he see your daughter as a trad wife who will be a SAHM while he calls the shots (controls?) everything? Does she want that? Some men in that world WANT that. I know (in fact dated) and Etonian that kept a younger on / off girlfriend on the back burner For years while he dated his way around London. She then got pregnant and he quickly married her in a low key wedding in her home country. Likewise a big ish age gap and a HUGE wealth social status gap.

he was going for a sidekick to his life, not an equal. It’s fab on the surface, big house in a posh bit of London, country house etc. But he went on a week long skiing trip with his friends leaving her home alone with a young baby. He works in a glittering career and goes away to write novels on the side, again leavkingher with the kids.

it may seem like a fairy tale now, but what does your daughter REALLY want. Being bankrolled to be a SAHM can often mean ‘we’ll live MY choices and you say thank you and smile on demand’

Hiya

Just came on to say I think there's a specific Scottish dynamic mingling with the class one here. I am one of three sisters from a lower middle class, state school, small town Scottish background, two of whom are married to privately educated south of England men from wealthier families.

Everyone is generally lovely and gets along well, and even without any personality clashes the class and cultural differences are hard at times. There are so many assumptions and ideas specific to each group which keep getting put in the spotlight and it's uncomfortable. But I just came to say that for us it has got much easier over time when everyone gets to really know each other as people. And with the parents of your SIL you really likely won't see them much after the wedding.

I think as Scots the culture is to be hardworking and proud of it, humble, community-focused, and not to have big ideas about yourself. This I always saw as a good thing. But I having lived in this culture mash up now for a while I see the downsides - inferiority complexes and some problematic ideas about ambition and success. Equally my in laws can on occasion be a little elitist, individualistic and judgemental because of their culture, but have taught me a lot about so many things. We're now at a place where we are all respecting and learning from each other. Wishing all of you the best

I married my lovely DH 24 years ago after a 9 month whirlwind romance. We are still very happy together. It was at times hard navigating his upper middle class world, as it was for him with my working class mother, but we have created our own normal. Your DD and her DH need to be boundaried from the start with the snobs and the inverted snobs, whether they are family or friends. Money is an obvious minefield and like your SIL, my DH stood up for me about not ringfencing money and we have had a joint account from the beginning. As it stands, he has received relatively little from them and we have made our own money, from our joint business. Your DD needs to be firm from the outset, as and when the situations arise, nip any shitty behaviours in the bud. In my experience, being meek does not protect you in such circles and I made it clear to my MiL, just after my honeymoon, that I would not tolerate any rudeness from her and we have ended up better friends than I'd expected. We have both worked hard to meet each other in the middle, and whilst she is still an awful snob, she has other lovely qualities. I was also clear with my own family but they found it much harder to overcome their prejudices and that relationship has ended but for many reasons.

Prejudices and insecurities are normal, they come from how we are raised and our life experiences, and we all have them, but they can make us petty minded and they dont serve us well and we miss out on what could be moments of connection and joy. Enjoy your SIL as he sounds like a wonderful person. He will no doubt have flaws but don't we all.

I wish your DD and her DH a lifetime of happiness.

Also totally agree with @Stilts, spot on analysis, coming from a Scottish family myself.

Your SIL sounds lovely. You said yourself he made the charity donation discreetly and was discreet about offering your daughter help with childcare. Honestly those two things are not really anything to do with you.

Would you rather he pretend to be broke and not donate to the appeal, or offer help to a struggling family member, so you can feel more comfortable?

I don't think he's done anything wrong, all of these sound like nice things he's done.

His parents don't really have anything to do with anything.

On second thoughts I would probably feel a bit sorry for him having cold, aloof parents when he sounds like a nice man himself.

I think that whatever he does, he’s not going to win. If he doesn’t offer financial help to his family, then he’s a cold, tight bastard, but if he does then he’s flaunting his wealth/asserting his dominance.

He doesn’t sound like he’s done anything wrong here at all, and nor does he sound like a bad person.

I wonder whether your daughter is on board with a bigger celebration, or is she trying to appease those judging her for ‘selling out’/‘forgetting where she came from’? It’s not like she isn’t already facing judgement along those lines from at least her sister. I've seen it before where someone that is in a different financial/social position to their birth family is expected to essentially apologize for their life, and never be seen to enjoy it.

As far as protecting the family money goes - that’s entirely normal. It isn’t personal to your daughter.

Gosh, I’ve always thought that Scottish class system in its upper echelons was even more entrenched and clannish than its English equivalent. Certainly what I’ve seen of it suggested it was (knew a Scot at Oxford whose father owned great chunks of Scotland, was at a scattering of weekend parties at his baronial pile and a couple of weddings).

"..........(br already has children)."

What does the above mean please @highlandslady ?

Was your daughter the OW ?

I fully understand how you feel. We both left school at 16, we were lucky to buy our council house where we still live after 50 years. My DiL comes from a completely different background and her parents are just as you describe.

She is the most amazing person, she has done so much for my son in terms of building his self confidence and helping him overcome his anxiety. She loves our family, is really close to all of my other children, various aunties cousins etc.

My advice is to be grateful that your daughter has found this amazing man. I have had to swallow quite a lot over the years from her parents, but it is small price to pay for seeing my son in such a happy marriage.

Most wealth is an accident of birth. It does not mean any person is better than you, or more important than you. Treat him the same as you would any other kind person.

Yes totally.

but the OP is making clear she’s not part of the Scottish aristocracy.

finding the insight into the Scottish slant on this fascinating as I have close Scottish relatives and I experience the shaming and rejection

for… as far as I can tell, doing too well!

Good university, successful career, earn well and likewise I know and work and socialise with some people who are absolutely ‘posh’ and / or in positions of real power.

some pride but mixed with surprise that suggests it’s a fluke and I might get found out for being too common and a definite vibe that I don’t belong anymore and that buying and enjoying using things I can afford (a cashmere cardigan comes to mind) is not only extravagant but a bit shameful.

my family would be fine with meeting someone actually posh, Scottish or otherwise.

but the idea that I may be their equal and well able to work and socialise with them is too much.

I would try to separate his parents from him. It sounds like they are perhaps a bit snobby and unpleasant. But as you barely have to interact with them, just take the moral high ground, be friendly and polite, and move on.

Re your SIL. he sounds kind and generous. I think him offering to help out his sisters-in-law is fine but it shouldn't be seen as HIM helping. YOu've said that him and your DD are sharing finances etc, so really it's THEM accepting that they're better off and perhaps they can help other members of the family. That's pretty normal in my world - it's never expected, ever, but it's not unusual for any family member who has a bit more cash at any one time to be generous to those with less cash at another if necessary.

I was about to say exactly this (only not so eloquently as you!)