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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say that the next generation is primarily screwed in terms of resilience

863 replies

Namechangechangeobv · 26/02/2024 13:14

And WTF do we do about it?

Obviously many young people are wonderfully resilient but the overall trend I’ve seen in my line of work (behavioural education) is that there are vast, and I mean VAST numbers of young adults who cannot leave the house, come into a classroom, look someone in the eye, make a phone call, speak infront of the class (if they make it in), cry when pronouns are wrong (daily occurrence), take responsibility to revise/get a job/learn to drive.

What is going to happen to these humans in the future?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
BestBadger · 26/02/2024 16:09

mightydolphin · 26/02/2024 13:28

I do enjoy the fact that you're asking what we should do about it, surely that's how the whole problem started? The previous generations babied them into adulthood and now many are in an anxious state because they don't know how to be confident in themselves and use their initiative? You don't learn resilience from getting everything handed to you and by being told you're great all the time. Imagine being treated that way and then BAM, you go into a workplace and suddenly you actually have to make an effort to become competent (let alone great).

I'm not saying all of Gen Z is like this, I've worked with some lovely Gen Z adults.

I don't know, what does the research say? What's the relationship between internal and external factors in determining a person's resilience? Also, how are we measuring resilience?

Anxiety seems to be on the increase generally, with 5% of the population diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder or in any given week 6 in every 100 people will be diagnosed. Something is going on and it can't just be one cause.

One report cites an explosion in cases since 2008 (coinciding with the financial crash). Trebling cases in young adults, affecting 30% of women and increasing across the board for those under 55. The data collection stopped in 2018 before covid so presumably it's worse now.

To say that the next generation is primarily screwed in terms of resilience
JudgeJ · 26/02/2024 16:10

moderate · 26/02/2024 13:38

@AgnesX "People talk about it much more freely it seems."

Or, more cynically: people can gain social cachet by labelling themselves as suffering from various mental health disorders.

I've seen 'mental health' described as the 'bad back' of the 21st Century, so much is dumped under the mental health umbrella, no-one is ever simply pissed off, a bit fed up, a bit upset.

platinumplus · 26/02/2024 16:10

stickygotstuck · 26/02/2024 16:08

I'm sorry, dont't have time to RTWT right now but I am very interested in this (very worrying) topic.

To simplify, my feeling is that the world as it is now has become way too complicated and overwhelming for most human brains. Let alone those prone to ill MH (and yes, neurodivergent).

So it used to be a minority who struggled when things were 'simpler'/more straightforward in the past, with fewer distractions, less exposure to an excess of 24hr information, when we were not all 'plugged into the Matrix' as it were. Now it's more and more people struggling.

As an example, take my friend's uncle, who suffered from ill mental health at a time when MH wasn't spoken about. He was unhappy and depressed, but he was the 'odd' relative who manage to just about survive and have a job by withdrawing from the world as much as possible. Now that withdrawal is almost impossible.

Then take his daughter (myfriend's elder cousin), who has inherited his sensitiviy and tendency to ill MH. She can barely hold it together, has been on long term sick leave several times, and has lost several jobs. I strongly suspect in the 60s, 70s and even 80s she'd have muddled through, like her father before her at her age.

Absolutely this. We are being bombarded by information 24/7 when our brains were only meant to cope with picking some berries off a tree or hunting some food.

Spendonsend · 26/02/2024 16:11

StrawberryWasp · 26/02/2024 15:57

This is the only way to stop anxiety incresaing:

Face the fears gradually, voluntarily, at a pace you control.

Instead we've gone down the route: how can we help you to remove things that make you anxious.
This just means more and more things have to be removed.

It's very basic psychology that psychologists seem to have forgotten or abandoned in order to look compassionate.

Its interesting you say that, as when pupils face anxiety about attending school the system isnt to remove school actually, although that can be what happens in the end out of desperation. The response is quite punatative, with threats of fines to parents. Its also very rare that a pupil is allowed to reintergrate voluntarily, gradually and at a pace they control. Its very often a timetable with targets that as soon as a pupil makes progress, they are expected to double the lenghth of time or based on what the school can support staffing wise or fear of parents being sanctioned and school recommending english is important. Its quite different than how aversion therapy runs. I remember thinking at the time that this doesnt feel like the basic way psychology would deal with this.

Oblomov24 · 26/02/2024 16:11

My 2ds's are a bit older, uni and GCSE's, but both are confident and resilient, can easily do all the things listed without batting an eyelid. When I heard ds1 being interviewed for his apprenticeship (one of those that you go to uni, but alongside do a 3mth paid placement with the firm in London, every year) I was seriously impressed.

WhichWayPleaseImLost · 26/02/2024 16:11

I absolutely gree with you OP. Lots of good points made about lack of physical freedoms, the pathologisation of normal emotions, the influence of the Internet and helicopter parenting - and so many excuses made for kids not to cope, by parents, school, society. Also, the difficulty is getting paid Saturday jobs from a young age ('insurance') - so important in building self-esteem, character and independence.

We are so frightened for our children when really, life is so extremely, painfully safe. My DD, 20, at uni, is so dismissive of her generation; on the other hand she says it makes those that are copers, like her, look good, so it's not all bad... but it is terrible for society and the truly major challenges we face.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 26/02/2024 16:12

MandyRiceDavies · 26/02/2024 13:19

Sounds like balls to me, sorry. The young people I know are perfectly resilient and capable. Perhaps your line of work brings you into contact with people who have more issues.

I'm an academic and that is not what I am seeing at university. The number of students suffering anxiety has gone through the roof. Even those who attend class etc seem to expect everything to be done for them and to be spoon fed regarding what is required of them has increased significantly.

Sure, there are plenty of students who are self-sufficient and resilient but the number who aren't is increasing year on year.

Desecratedcoconut · 26/02/2024 16:12

What's that phrase about an easy life making people soft and and hard life toughening them up?

I think people adapt to their environment and I can't imagine all of the grit and skills shown by the many generations that preceded us could be lost for good in a few decades of easy living.

ShakerP3g · 26/02/2024 16:15

I think youngsters are dealing with so much more than previous generations- climate change, zero chance of ever home owning and the first generation to have grown up completely with smart phones.

I think smart phones and lack of safe guarding, less human contact, less mindfulness and more anxiety provoking online behaviour such as SM are hugely to blame.

Then there is the crisis that CAMHS and adult mental health services are in. There is no mental health support or treatment so what is little is left to grow big.

Finally there is an issue with 6 form colleges being shite at mental health support. They have loopholes they can use to offload to protect results and they do. My mentally ill daughter was forbidden from going in by her college even though services felt her safe and wanted her to attend as did she. They finally offloaded her due to “ safeguarding”. She’s very bright and only has GCSE’s she never sat due to Covid. That makes life feel even more hopeless. The Alevel situation is shit if you’ve had 3 years of funding you are effectively shut out.🙄

These are all issues the government could have helped with and continuously refuse to. It’s appalling.

But hey let’s keep blaming useless youngsters. 🙄

Ohanotherflippingcold · 26/02/2024 16:16

Desecratedcoconut · 26/02/2024 16:12

What's that phrase about an easy life making people soft and and hard life toughening them up?

I think people adapt to their environment and I can't imagine all of the grit and skills shown by the many generations that preceded us could be lost for good in a few decades of easy living.

I'm sorry, you think we are in a period of easy living?

Previous generations didn't have any more grit and skills than todays youth, but they were more likely to accept dangerous working conditions, poor mental health and abusive schools.

If this was an easy life, houses could be bought easily on one income, bills could be paid with one income, holidays could be paid for and a car run whilst one parent stayed at home, like in ' harder ' times.

PennyNotWise · 26/02/2024 16:16

Don’t people say things like this every generation? I’m in my 40s but so tired of the demonisation of the young. They’re a great generation and are working out that a generic academic life is not necessary, and their emotional literacy is probably better than any of us “mums”.
Each generation will have their advantages and disadvantages.

platinumplus · 26/02/2024 16:16

I can't speak for them all but anecdotally schools seem like very stressful places compared to when I went (90s).

The more "outgoing" kids seem to be able to get away with anything - there's lots of bullying as well as a lot of low level mischief. Shouting and fights. Lessons get abandoned to deal with behaviour. Autistic kids who years ago would have been in a special school are getting severely overwhelmed with the mainstream environment and having huge meltdowns - chair throwing etc. My child's school area has to be evacuated for this on multiple occasions.
Teachers are stressed to breaking point - this comes out as tears, snappiness and anger towards students. It sounds like absolute chaos.
Is it any wonder that kids are anxious about going to school?

Hereyoume · 26/02/2024 16:18

I also think that we have promoted weakness to such an extent that it has become "normal" to be helpless, and anyone who doesn't support such thinking is branded as aggressive or offensive.

But most of this nonsense is down to affluence, kids have the luxury of being able to wallow in their own weakness because they don't actually have to fight for anything.

Comfort is a bigger barrier to progress than hardship.

We allow people to remain weak, we support them to remain afraid, we let them live as helpless people.

MrsMurphyIWish · 26/02/2024 16:19

platinumplus · 26/02/2024 16:01

@MrsMurphyIWish Severe Anxiety is still a SEN. A lot of undiagnosed autism presents as anxiety. And no it's not just people who are a little bit worried.

Please don’t patronise me @platinumplus.

Did you miss where I said my child is autistic? I am well aware there are people with severe anxiety. I am also aware that (some) students I teach just do not like sitting exams and their passport allows them not to be assessed. Surely you must be aware that some people “play the system” in all walks of life.

RhubarbGingerJam · 26/02/2024 16:19

My own DD, just 18, is one of <5% in her year who have learnt - it is not about cash, she is at a fee paying school. I wonder what the correlation between driving and general resilience is - I suspect from experience that it is high.

We don't drive - at all so no point paying our kids to learn really - however they can navigate public transport and walking local places or taking a taxi by themselves very well as they've done it with us for years - Transport apps/webpages and google maps there not phased like many of their friends.

Open day for Uni with eldest were done with one parent - offer day they got themselves there on public transport and feet - they were only one to do so rest had at least one parent there.

My parents said driving brought them freedom but if there are impediments to driving -like cost - there are other routes to being self propelled at least in Europe.

reservoirdawg · 26/02/2024 16:19

MandyRiceDavies · 26/02/2024 13:19

Sounds like balls to me, sorry. The young people I know are perfectly resilient and capable. Perhaps your line of work brings you into contact with people who have more issues.

What age are we talking about. Mid 20's+ are ok, pissed off with the economy and student loans and property prices but working and 'normal'
Adolescents to mid 20's are really struggling though.

FluffyFanny · 26/02/2024 16:20

The constant talk about mental health in the media and in schools only serves to perpetuate anxieties. Schools especially, are parading a constant stream of mental health professionals through- leading assemblies, running workshops, and the endless PSCHE lessons analysing children's feelings and anxieties and encouraging them to look out for any signs they have of problems are making the kids paranoid.

There's a lot to be said for the 'if aint broke it don't need fixing' attitude, but in trying to fix the few the rest are being convinced they issues.

It's also dangerous to label perfectly normal feelings as mental health issues.
Being stressed before an exam is not the same as having exam phobia. And there seems to be a massive fear of putting any pressure on kids these days to the point that they can't cope with normal expectations. Being nervous before a presentation is not a reason to not do it, being homesick on a residential is not a reason to stay at home, being shy is not a reason to have an adult speak for you etc. etc.

Bushmillsbabe · 26/02/2024 16:20

I think the growth if the dependency and 'entitled to' culture has a part to play also.
People are told 'you are entitled to a nice house' 'you are entitled to be treated just how you want' 'you are entitled to respect, you don't have to earn it'. The sports days where no winners are allowed, not allowing red pen when marking schoolwork etc. And then when they don't get these there is a victim mentality, and if people are told they are a victim they start believing it.
Resilience comes from trying,failing, trying harder and learning how to succeed. From being scared but doing something anyway, and the huge self pride that develops from this.
Children need to know that we aren't all the same, we won't all acheive the same or get the same reward, but to have pride in their effort. My Dad was kicked out of home at 14 by an abusive alcoholic father slept on sofas and park benches, and had set back after set back, and worked flipping hard, and is now quite wealthy maintaining his integrity throughout. People talk to children now about 'poverty traps' - 'you were born into poverty so you are stuck there'. Rather than being told 'you have control over your life, you can change it if you really want to' which gives hope.
Just like Matilda

"Just because you find that life's not fair, it
Doesn't mean that you just have to grin and bear it
If you always take it on the chin and wear it
You might as well be saying you think that it's OK
And that's not right
And if it's not right
You have to put it right
Nobody is gonna put it right for me
Nobody but me is gonna change my story'.

User135644 · 26/02/2024 16:22

An antiquated educational system doesn't help. It doesn't teach basic life skills.

WhichWayPleaseImLost · 26/02/2024 16:22

RhubarbGingerJam · 26/02/2024 16:19

My own DD, just 18, is one of <5% in her year who have learnt - it is not about cash, she is at a fee paying school. I wonder what the correlation between driving and general resilience is - I suspect from experience that it is high.

We don't drive - at all so no point paying our kids to learn really - however they can navigate public transport and walking local places or taking a taxi by themselves very well as they've done it with us for years - Transport apps/webpages and google maps there not phased like many of their friends.

Open day for Uni with eldest were done with one parent - offer day they got themselves there on public transport and feet - they were only one to do so rest had at least one parent there.

My parents said driving brought them freedom but if there are impediments to driving -like cost - there are other routes to being self propelled at least in Europe.

That's great- I think public transport resilience is really important. And you are absolutely right to point out that driving is not essential everywhere. However, where I live, public transport is very poor and not driving essentially means not going anywhere. So the paucity of drivers at DD's school is surprising, and alarming.

rooftopbird · 26/02/2024 16:23

I’m afraid that the “demand for safe and inclusive workplaces” has become part of the problem. Employers should employ working practices that comply with Employment Law, but some employees believe that their employer should bend over backwards at every unreasonable demand instead of just accepting that some things are outside of their control and thats the way employment works. What precisely do you mean by ‘inclusive’? Not everyone is able to do every job, and a job description is not, by its very nature, inclusive. neither is holding interviews or requiring specific qualifications for some jobs. Life itself isnt inclusive. The word is overused and exploited. *

This is so so true 🙌🏼🙌🏼

Namechangechangeobv · 26/02/2024 16:23

PennyNotWise · 26/02/2024 16:16

Don’t people say things like this every generation? I’m in my 40s but so tired of the demonisation of the young. They’re a great generation and are working out that a generic academic life is not necessary, and their emotional literacy is probably better than any of us “mums”.
Each generation will have their advantages and disadvantages.

But what I’m saying is that I’ve watched it change from early 2000s to now. I never used to say it. And for me, it’s backed up by very obvious figures - we now take 20 times the learners that we used to because the need has increased by that much.

OP posts:
TheCadoganArms · 26/02/2024 16:24

I have certainly noticed over the last several years a certain increased level of what I can only call 'flakiness' amongst our recent grads. These people are academically very strong and came through a fairly rigorous selection process but seem to lack what my Irish father would call 'cop on'. Way more work absences often with crap accompanying excuses and they require way more supervision compared to a decade earlier.

kittensinthekitchen · 26/02/2024 16:24

Maybe young people would be managing better if those who were supposed to help them were doing their jobs, instead of making shitty comments about them on the internet on a Monday afternoon?

StrawberryWasp · 26/02/2024 16:25

Spendonsend · 26/02/2024 16:11

Its interesting you say that, as when pupils face anxiety about attending school the system isnt to remove school actually, although that can be what happens in the end out of desperation. The response is quite punatative, with threats of fines to parents. Its also very rare that a pupil is allowed to reintergrate voluntarily, gradually and at a pace they control. Its very often a timetable with targets that as soon as a pupil makes progress, they are expected to double the lenghth of time or based on what the school can support staffing wise or fear of parents being sanctioned and school recommending english is important. Its quite different than how aversion therapy runs. I remember thinking at the time that this doesnt feel like the basic way psychology would deal with this.

If non attendance is construed as anxiety then the response is often modified timetable, withdrawal from some lessons in school, then part time timetable, with often a quick escalation to full non attendance.

Often the child then retreats to their room and stops going out altogether.

In these cases it's because the attempted 'supports' were not addressing the anxiety they were just removing the trigger, but the child learns 'I can't cope with any difficulty' so every challenge becomes unbearable.

It's not the kids fault. It's just human psychology. And there are many reasons in the modern world to be anxious. It's just this approach will not work.

I agree reintegration is usually done is a totally non psychological way and often fails, further leading the child to conclude 'I can't cope. school is not for me' and withdrawing again.

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