Page 25 | What is she up to?

DontVisitCabotCove · 2024-02-25T16:18:46+00:00

DB, his partner “Jane” & her 2 kids have been staying with me - in my house - after the house they were buying fell through. They had been looking at other properties to buy but have since decided to end their relationship so that’s no longer happening. Yesterday while my DB and I were out and unbeknownst to me, Jane had an estate agent over to value my house & as he was leaving he told her he’d send her an email with the valuation & they were talking about viewings etc. Today Jane asked me to give her a letter stating that my brother is living here but wouldn’t tell me why she wanted it & was really unhappy when I said I’d give her a letter saying they were both temporarily staying with me as that’s the actual truth. What on earth could she be up to? I’m honestly baffled! Should I tell her that I know about the valuation? Should I tell my DB about all of this? On one hand I don’t want to get involved in their troubles or make things worse (things are bad enough between them already) but on the other hand I feel I’m being drawn into it as it’s my bloody house she had valued!

Rightsraptor · 26/02/2024 23:27

But we don't actually hold the deeds to our property any longer, not in paper form at least. Maybe if you've owned a property for years you do, but not for more recently purchased ones. The Land Registry holds them digitally

magentacloud · 26/02/2024 23:30

DontVisitCabotCove · 26/02/2024 18:43

So I saw the actual estate agent who came to my house and their manager; they were quite blasé about the whole thing and I got the impression that this isn’t the first time something like this has happened.

Basically they were under the impression they were dealing with me over phone and email (they wouldn’t give me the phone number or email address but confirmed the email address contained my name). They were fully aware that I’m sick and of my exact diagnosis which is why they apparently gave me some leeway with providing the information they were asking for before the actual valuation / market appraisal. Apparently just before the appointment “I” called up and told them I needed to go to hospital but that I’d arrange for a family member to let them in. When the agent got there, Jane introduced herself as Jane and said she was staying with me temporarily and confirmed I was at hospital so she wasn’t trying to impersonate me or anything like that.

Anyway long story short, they didn’t send the valuation, the email they sent said the valuation was ready but before they could go any further, they need to register my property and carry out some checks and asking me to fill out some forms and provide all the information in the checklist (photo ID, proof of address etc). There was no reply to the email.

As far as the estate agents are concerned, they did nothing wrong as they were genuinely trying to be accommodating considering my health and didn’t actually supply a valuation or do any marketing without all the necessary checks first.

Jane has denied that this is anything to do with her, she said she let the agent in because she had assumed I had just forgotten about the appointment (because of my “brain fog”) and then she forgot to tell me about it after. As the agent knew about my health and that I was in hospital, it all seemed legit to her apparently. When my DB bought up the letter though, her only response was it’s none of his business.

My brain is honestly frazzled by all of this.

Edited

This doesn't add up, as in your OP you wrote:

Yesterday while my DB and I were out and unbeknownst to me, Jane had an estate agent over to value my house & as he was leaving he told her he’d send her an email with the valuation & they were talking about viewings etc.

So if he thought he was dealing with your representative/a relative, then why would he say that he'd send the rep the valuation as it's supposedly your email, and why would he talk to her about viewings.

tensmum1964 · 26/02/2024 23:51

I find it extremely odd that you didn't confront her immediately about having your house valued. It's bstshit behaviour and I wouldn't want her living with me for another minute.

Fitzbillie · 26/02/2024 23:54

Seeing as we are going on flights of fancy… maybe the other heir is the intended victim of the scam…

DB and Jane set up finance to buy a house. The sale falls through —they pull out—. They ask OP to let them stay.

DB and Jane “break up”. OP is likely to let her homeless and heartbroken DB stay longer than she would be willing to host DB, Jane and her DC. Jane and DB arrange valuations of the property to establish proof that OP wants to sell up. It’s not improbable that OP might want to release equity in her property now she is unwell. They don’t even need to actually have viewings, although if DB is living there he could facilitate viewings when OP isn’t there, they have established evidence of OP’s intention to sell.

It would be very difficult to sell a property fraudulently while the owner is living there - usually these scams happen when the property is rented or empty so viewings can take place and mail be intercepted. If would be far easier for DB to “buy” the property without OP’s knowledge than for Jane to sell it to a third party.

DB could intercept any mail about the fake sale, has access to her ID to open an online bank account in OP’s name for the proceeds to be paid into, emails to and from the fake email address are from OP’s IP address.

The letter stating that DB now lives at the address establishes that it is his home so it’s reasonable that he might want to buy it and OP might have changed her mind since she wrote her will and now want him to have the house. It also might be for the purpose of making it easier to prove that he knew about OP wanting to sell the property before the EA valued it to avoid having to pay any EA fees for the fake sale.

DB wouldn’t even need to buy the house, just put some money in. If he owned the house with OP as a joint tenant, he would inherit the house instead of OP’s intended heir. If he stands to inherit the rest of OP’s estate, he would inherit the money he paid for the house back! Entirely plausible that a loving brother might use his house deposit to buy part of his DS’s home to save her having to sell up or get a mortgage to buy it from her for sentimental reasons … Entirely plausible that his DS might have chosen to make him a joint tenant in gratitude. Entirely plausible that she might have intended to update her will after the sale so the other heir didn’t lose out but never got round to it. Entirely plausible that brain fog meant she didn’t realise that being a joint tenant would mean she couldn’t leave her share to the other heir.

If OP doesn’t have alerts set up with the land registry, the sale would be unlikely to be discovered until distribution of the estate. It would be pretty hard to prove the sale wasn’t genuine without OP as a witness. Especially if the DB buys the house outright for the full market value. There is a good chance that the other heir wouldn’t suspect fraud or pursue it. Who wants to accuse a relative of fraud without strong proof?

That probably isn’t what is going on 😂 It’s a shame I am too honest to be a fraudster, I think I would be better at it than Jane 😂

Sorry you are going through this, OP. Don’t stress, you have had good advice on how to protect yourself. Hopefully my improbable criminal flight of fancy will make you laugh!

ClairDeLaLune · 27/02/2024 00:31

OP I hope you have now evicted Jane.

Everythinggreen · 27/02/2024 01:08

I can't believe the audacity of some people! Who does this!! She doesn't even sound clever enough to be a sociopathic danger, she sounds dim enough to think she can somehow lay claim to a share in her ex boyfriends sister house, possibly been reading the fictitious stories found on reddit and quora. Beggars belief!

Alondra · 27/02/2024 04:18

OP, you and Mumsnet will never know her motive behind asking for a valuation of your property. What's obvious is that she did something very underhanded and completely out of order. You are taking great steps to protect yourself, talking to your solicitor being the most important one.

Just tell her to leave your property, not only verbally but by email as well. In your email, state clearly why she's no longer welcome to stay with you. Something like "Out of kindness, and as a partner to my DB, I allowed you and your children to stay in my home when the deal for buying a property deal fell through. Your relationship with my DB has ended and unbeknown to me, you had my home valuated without my permission or knowledge. I don't know why you've done this but you had no right to do it and I no longer feel safe with you in my home. Please leave, "insert the day you want her out", will suffice.

I'm so sorry that on top of your health issues, you are dealing with this crap.

LittleGlowingOblong · 27/02/2024 04:29

To all the people shouting “But DB and Jane aren’t married FFS!!” … there is no actual proof that they haven’t, in fact, quietly tied the know somewhere.

With this level of deception and now impersonation too (the fake email address) it’s fair to consider that at least as an outlying possibility.

Well done for all that you’re doing, OP.

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/02/2024 04:33

Gosh this is really sinister. I truly hope Jane has gone and your brother will leave too. He brought this to your door. If you have the energy, I would be tempted to do the SAR. Good luck with your solicitor today.

Alondra · 27/02/2024 04:46

Free property valuations are very common in real estate. I'm in Australia, but it's rare of the week I don't receive a pamphlet from real estate agents saying they are giving free valuations in our area. A couple of well known agents also call me regularly on my mobile.

Until there is formal contract with a RE, which means having a solicitor, a free valuation means nothing. The real issue is why the partner of your DB will ask for it. Unless the majority posters on the thread, I don't think she wants to get her hands on your property. She asked you for a letter stating your DB was living with you, and was unhappy with you saying the truth, ie, that both of them were living with you. If she wanted to make a claim, she'd have asked for a letter stating her and her children had lived with you for years so she could claim responsibility of care. She didn't do that. She is (was) your DB' partner, not married and no children together. There is something else going on her end.

Whatever it is, she's lied, misrepresent you and valuated your home without your approval. You need to get her out of your property.

TruthSeeker123 · 27/02/2024 06:30

Kick her out immediately shut your curtains and do not give her any information or proof that your brothers staying there.

DisforDarkChocolate · 27/02/2024 06:46

If I was staying in someone's house and an estate agent turned up to value the home when the owner wasn't there I'd either ask them to come back or tell you as soon as you returned. Not telling you asap is very odd. Hospital appointment or not I'd have sent you a text while the estate was still there.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 27/02/2024 07:01

samarrange · 26/02/2024 21:49

I'd be contacting the Estate Agent to let them know she doesn't own the house and to ask them why they felt able to do this (what reason did she give?).

If I may defend the EA here (never a popular position): If someone calls you up and says "Hi, I live at 4 Acacia Avenue and I'd like my house valued, can you come round at 2pm tomorrow?", and you turn up and they let you in — either because they answer the doorbell or because they are standing outside with the key — you are probably not going to say "Sorry, just a bit of due diligence first, can you please show me your passport and the deeds?". I think it's reasonable for the EA to assume that someone with access to the house who is asking for the valuation and says they're the owner, is in fact the owner. Maybe that due diligence should be a standard part of the protocol, but I'd bet it isn't in 99% of cases. Whenever we've sold a property, nobody asked for ID.

That also means that when the OP later turns up and says "Er, actually, I'm the owner", the EA has no obvious immediate way to work out who is telling the truth. From their point of view they are just dealing with a couple of people, of whom probably one is weird. All they can do at that point is activate the "Hmmm, something is fucked up here" mode that anyone who has to deal with the public for a living will develop over time. Once the OP shows them the deeds and her passport, hopefully the penny will drop, but psychologically it's a lot easier to believe the first person you met rather than the second, so I can understand it taking a while for the lies planted by Jane to be cleared from the OP's mind.

Show quote history

This. The EA didn’t actually provide an official valuation.. they simply viewed the house and asked for the necessary information afterwards. I honestly wouldn’t blame them.

but I would be extremely curious about that telephone number. I wouldn’t be surprised if ex-DP (or anyone else…) used their own number.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 27/02/2024 07:05

Alondra · 27/02/2024 04:46

Free property valuations are very common in real estate. I'm in Australia, but it's rare of the week I don't receive a pamphlet from real estate agents saying they are giving free valuations in our area. A couple of well known agents also call me regularly on my mobile.

Until there is formal contract with a RE, which means having a solicitor, a free valuation means nothing. The real issue is why the partner of your DB will ask for it. Unless the majority posters on the thread, I don't think she wants to get her hands on your property. She asked you for a letter stating your DB was living with you, and was unhappy with you saying the truth, ie, that both of them were living with you. If she wanted to make a claim, she'd have asked for a letter stating her and her children had lived with you for years so she could claim responsibility of care. She didn't do that. She is (was) your DB' partner, not married and no children together. There is something else going on her end.

Whatever it is, she's lied, misrepresent you and valuated your home without your approval. You need to get her out of your property.

I was wondering as well…. But I’m not particularly familiar with English (if they are in England…) law. So I really couldn’t get my head around it.

if this was where I live I‘d say that this was about showing a court of law that DB didn’t have outgoing related to housing / accommodation (mortgage, rent etc.) which would lead to a considerable increase of “available” / discretionary income.

that’s the part of his income he could be ordered to pay as child support. But no clue what’s going on here!

Craybourne · 27/02/2024 07:30

DontVisitCabotCove · 26/02/2024 18:43

So I saw the actual estate agent who came to my house and their manager; they were quite blasé about the whole thing and I got the impression that this isn’t the first time something like this has happened.

Basically they were under the impression they were dealing with me over phone and email (they wouldn’t give me the phone number or email address but confirmed the email address contained my name). They were fully aware that I’m sick and of my exact diagnosis which is why they apparently gave me some leeway with providing the information they were asking for before the actual valuation / market appraisal. Apparently just before the appointment “I” called up and told them I needed to go to hospital but that I’d arrange for a family member to let them in. When the agent got there, Jane introduced herself as Jane and said she was staying with me temporarily and confirmed I was at hospital so she wasn’t trying to impersonate me or anything like that.

Anyway long story short, they didn’t send the valuation, the email they sent said the valuation was ready but before they could go any further, they need to register my property and carry out some checks and asking me to fill out some forms and provide all the information in the checklist (photo ID, proof of address etc). There was no reply to the email.

As far as the estate agents are concerned, they did nothing wrong as they were genuinely trying to be accommodating considering my health and didn’t actually supply a valuation or do any marketing without all the necessary checks first.

Jane has denied that this is anything to do with her, she said she let the agent in because she had assumed I had just forgotten about the appointment (because of my “brain fog”) and then she forgot to tell me about it after. As the agent knew about my health and that I was in hospital, it all seemed legit to her apparently. When my DB bought up the letter though, her only response was it’s none of his business.

My brain is honestly frazzled by all of this.

Edited

Sounds like it was still Jane.

How else would the impersonator have been sure there would be someone in?

Also, another thing – if they just wanted to know how much the house was worth, they could have just looked on Zoopla. Whoever did this wanted the official documentation to use as evidence of some sort.

And surely there has been a crime committed, as someone did impersonate you (harassment, fraud, breach of privacy, misuse of personal information, etc.)

Jesus, f%#* Jane

TroysMammy · 27/02/2024 07:31

@PumpkinsAndCoconuts he can't be ordered to pay child support as they are not his children.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 27/02/2024 07:35

TroysMammy · 27/02/2024 07:31

@PumpkinsAndCoconuts he can't be ordered to pay child support as they are not his children.

good point! But I’d still be worried about this. Not so much as OP but if I was OP’s DB, tbh! I would absolutely want to know what she was planning…

CuttingMeOpenthenHealingMeFine · 27/02/2024 07:38

magentacloud · 26/02/2024 23:30

This doesn't add up, as in your OP you wrote:

Yesterday while my DB and I were out and unbeknownst to me, Jane had an estate agent over to value my house & as he was leaving he told her he’d send her an email with the valuation & they were talking about viewings etc.

So if he thought he was dealing with your representative/a relative, then why would he say that he'd send the rep the valuation as it's supposedly your email, and why would he talk to her about viewings.

Show quote history

If Jane had been laying it on thick to him about OP being unwell and unable to manage the sale on her own so would be needing her help etc. then the EA may well have been under the impression that she was managing it for the OP. So while he means he will send the official valuation to the email that was provided he is acknowledging that it will likely be Jane dealing with it all.

I bought a house years ago and only dealt with the sellers sister or her lawyers, the sister conducted the viewings etc. so I don’t think this would jump out as immediately odd to the EA especially since they think that the OP was the one who instructed them.

MILLYmo0se · 27/02/2024 07:49

magentacloud · 26/02/2024 23:30

This doesn't add up, as in your OP you wrote:

Yesterday while my DB and I were out and unbeknownst to me, Jane had an estate agent over to value my house & as he was leaving he told her he’d send her an email with the valuation & they were talking about viewings etc.

So if he thought he was dealing with your representative/a relative, then why would he say that he'd send the rep the valuation as it's supposedly your email, and why would he talk to her about viewings.

Show quote history

He probably just said 'I ll send an email with XYZ...', to the OP that's an email to Janes email address given OP knows nothing about any of this

GRex · 27/02/2024 07:51

Someone selling a property needs to decalre all interests in the property. That would include a mortgage as financial interest (not relevant here) and anyone living there. The letter ties in with Jane planning a sale, OR with her being pregnant (whether or not the child belongs to DB is another matter) and citing it as DB residence for financial support purposes.

Alondra · 27/02/2024 07:57

if this was where I live I‘d say that this was about showing a court of law that DB didn’t have outgoing related to housing / accommodation (mortgage, rent etc.) which would lead to a considerable increase of “available” / discretionary income.

that’s the part of his income he could be ordered to pay as child support. But no clue what’s going on here!

I would have thought the same except England (UK?) doesn't recognise de facto marriages, and even if they did (like in Australia), she can't make a claim to her partner's income when the children have a father that's likely paying for children's support.

Like you, I have no idea what's going on here, except there is a reason why she wanted a letter stating the OP's DB was living with her, was unhappy about the OP's answer and had a fraudulent valuation done in her name.

Conniebygaslight · 27/02/2024 08:03

I would apply Occum's Razor theory here, the simplest most obvious explanation is that Jane is as dodgy as hell, regardless of her motives.
Kick her out immediately.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 27/02/2024 08:06

I would do a SAR with the estate agent. You could really do with knowing the fake email address being used as it’s possibly being used for other things.

Rosscameasdoody · 27/02/2024 08:06

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 27/02/2024 07:01

This. The EA didn’t actually provide an official valuation.. they simply viewed the house and asked for the necessary information afterwards. I honestly wouldn’t blame them.

but I would be extremely curious about that telephone number. I wouldn’t be surprised if ex-DP (or anyone else…) used their own number.

Show quote history

I don’t know what country you’re in but I’m in England. Sold recently. The valuation is done on the first visit - nothing to sign at that stage and many sellers have more than one valuation before they decide which EA to go with. Once we had chosen the EA there was a follow up visit to take photographs for the brochure, and then the agent went through ID checks - took copies of driving licences etc and there was official paperwork to sign, along with an explanation of fees, terms and conditions. At that stage she would have come undone unless she could provide ID.

Grandmotherly · 27/02/2024 08:07

There is a scam whereby people sell houses, or take out a loan on property not their own. It only works if there is no mortgage or other interest registered on the property. If you are in this situation you can ask the Land Registry to notify you if there are any enquiries about your property. Contact the Land Registry. It's very easy to do online, and you will get a report if there are any enquiries about your home. Do it quickly and protect your assets.