School detention for forgetting a ruler?

[Wizardo]

Just interested - how many people have secondary school aged kids whose school gives a detention for forgetting basic equipment like a ruler?

I wonder does it really teach kids to be organised. Surely it just means disorganised people get lots of detentions? And feeds anxiety?

My schooling in the 90s felt pretty strict but this seems borderline bonkers. My dd currently “can’t borrow a school library book for the rest of the year” as she’s so anxious about getting a detention because she handed her last book in two weeks late. So now we are visiting our local library instead to provide her with books to read! I have obviously told her to just get the detention over and done with but she is adamant and determined to avoid it.

vote Yabu for No detention given
and Yanbu for Detention given.

@HadEnufff ,

It kind of is if you need to measure the length of something! Or draw a STRAIGHT line of best fit through some points….

@HadEnufff Don’t be ridiculous!!

My goodness it is hard to get you to understand. You don't like people disagreeing with you but that's not your entitlement.

@HadEnufff Oops…sorry…. wrong post. Apologies.

I didn't mock the strategies. I pointed out why they often don't work, and that it's not that us thickos can't think of doing them, it's that we already do, but they don't solve the issue.

Getting a detention for forgetting equipment once seems very harsh. There is a 3 strike system at my DS's school which is fair enough, after 3 warnings that has crossed the line of forgetful to just lazy.

Or maybe you should read my post properly because it’s not unreasonable for a child with IBS to suddenly be desperate for the toilet and isn’t something for them to be punished for - or to feel cold and politely ask to close a window and when they are told no to then put towel coat on to try to stay warm but not make a fuss - or to be apologetic that they’ve lost or forgotten something but still punished …:..

All I’ve done is given my child the confidence to be able to stick up for himself in relation to all of the above against a minority of teaching staff who seem to have a problem with the power they’ve been given and misuse it against children with genuine needs. He feels empowered now he can just walk out or just go to get his lunch (and why should he have a lunchtime detention for needing the toilet which then leaves him drained and hungry so no way is he missing food!)

For maths it is.

So have some spares. Ask parents to empty their drawers of stationary and donate any they don't need. My Mum was a teacher in a deprived area in the mid 90s to late 00s in the same school and she had loads of spares of stuff. She was well liked and Adults who were her pupils still come up to her to say hello in her home town, she was liked because she was kind and new the challenges some of these children were facing.

So your triangles have wobbly lines. Big deal.

Haven't people saying builders don't suffer the consequences for forgetting stuff noticed the signs at construction site entrances saying

No Boots
No Hat
No Job?

Site managers aren't keeping a stock of steelies in assorted sizes and telling the lads that they can start work if their Mum brings their card in by 3pm. And No CIS also featured on the majority of work produced, rather than purchased, signs because no card meant there was no proof that they were registered for taxation.

Admittedly, when DP was working at one of the CITB/CSCS test centres, he'd regularly have to turn men away who had forgotten to bring their ID to take the tests or showed up two hours late - although he did occasionally feel sorry for the youngest ones if their Mum/girlfriend was 'only round the corner' (and they'd arrived early) by letting them wait instead of following procedure by immediately cancelling the test and telling them they'd have to pay to rebook - so that would have eliminated a few of the people who couldn't cope with arriving equipped for their day, but it is clearly enough of an issue that sites need those signs in the first place.

Now try doing that in an exam. You will lose marks. My kids had a mock GCSE maths exam today, a ruler was a required piece of equipment. They have to get used to taking all their equipment throughout school because of they forget on exam day then you face failing and having to retake

I get the feeling that HadEnufff has never had to do force vector diagrams. Or had much to do with DT.

Some of the kids are using rulers as handy number lines, too.

Shhh, you're giving away all of the secrets.

Our school is a 3 strike rule but more frustratingly my son is autistic and will happy snap or chew everything in his pencil case so I am forever replacing things.
another school near us are a lot stricter and will send kids home for wrong colour socks or lack of equipment which is a joke considering how much the government preach about attendance

Detentions for minor things like this are ridiculous. When I was at school we'd borrow from someone nearby if we'd forgotten something. I'm also reminded of this poem by Joshua T. Dickerson. A few of these circumstances applied to me when I was at school and if I'd been given detentions for forgetting rulers my attendance would have ended up even lower than it was.

I woke myself up
Because we ain't got an alarm clock
Dug in the dirty clothes basket,
Cause ain't nobody washed my uniform
Brushed my hair and teeth in the dark,
Cause the lights ain't on
Even got my baby sister ready,
Cause my mama wasn't home.
Got us both to school on time,
To eat us a good breakfast.
Then when I got to class the teacher fussed
Cause I ain't got no pencil.

I just think it’s ridiculous to hold children to higher standards than we hold adults?! At work if someone has misplaced or forgotten a piece of stationary, they either grab another from the cupboard or find a spare, if I forget to pack myself a lunch then I just pop to the shop on my break, I’m not made to stay late for a detention. Similarly, I frequently forget my shopping bags when I go shopping, the supermarket doesn’t put me in a room for an hour to make sure I have learnt my lesson!

When I was at school we had baskets of spare rulers, glue sticks, pens etc, I know funding of schools is an issue now but it’s no excuse to start punishing children unnecessarily.

@InvisibleDuck

If we are going to start quoting poetry

ON GIRLS LENDING PENS
By Taylor Mali
I walked into the classroom and straight to my chair,
But when I reached for my pen, it just wasn’t there!
I had no pen! or crayon! or pencil!
I was stuck before class without a writing utensil.

I could have asked the teacher (if I had dared,)
But I knew she would have said, “You’re unprepared!”
So to be diplomatic and avoid the fight
I quickly turned to the girl on my right,

Do you possibly have a pen I could borrow?
I’ll use it today and have it back by tomorrow.
“Oh! Furshur! What kind? I’ve got plenty.”
And she turned around with a handful of twenty.

I really don’t care what color or style,
I’ll take the fountain pen, I said with a smile.
“Oh, you don’t want that one. It comes out all ugly.
And it’s made of pure gold,” she said to me smugly.

Then how bout the blue?
“No, that one hops.”
Okay, maybe the green?
“Comes out in glops.”
Black?
“I’m afraid it’s having trouble connecting.”
Red?
“I’ll need it if we do any in-class correcting.”
Look, I said, my voice filling with fear,
Just gimme a pen before the teacher gets here!

“But this one always comes out in tons,
The yellow one skips and the purple one runs.
When the brown one dries, it looks real icky,
And the orange one’s covered with something sticky.
This one’s for emergencies (in case I get confused)
‘cause it’s clean and it’s fresh and it’s never been used.
I keep this one for quizzes ‘cause it brings good luck,
And the ballpoint’s splotchy and the cap is stuck.
This one’s empty, with the silver band,
And the felt-tip will leak all over your hand.
This one’s cracked, and that’s gone berserk!
And that would be perfect but it doesn’t work.
But here! Take this one! This one’s fine!
Oh wait…I’m sorry, this one’s mine.”
I think she went on but I couldn’t have cared.
I decided it was better to go unprepared.

Nope you haven’t read my post properly. My point was that there are a lot of different needs/challenges in the classroom, often in conflict with each other. Giving your child permission to just up & walk out is not ok (except the toilet one - if he has IBS he will be allowed to leave the classroom with a toilet pass or similar whenever he needs to. All schools will accommodate genuine need & if not the school complaints policy is the way to go) & nor is a refusal to do as the school are asking. A conversation with school where reasonable adjustments are made is much more sensible. Staff then not following those will be dealt with by HoY/SENDCo if it is a reminder/CPD needed or senior leadership if an inability/refusal to put agreed adjustments in place. Empower your child by making sure he knows you’ll go into bat for him if he’s been wronged, not by giving him permission to do what he wants.

The amount of 'forgotten' equipment students find in their bags/blazers etc is amazing. For a large number of students it really is a CBA attitude to putting effort into sorting themselves out!

For those saying it must take ages to issue points etc. I can add them to our system for multiple students by ticking the names and then adding en masse to all, takes 30 secs max for however many students I need it for. Same system I used to add merits.

So you think you have some kind of hive mind with all other parents? Why did you imagine I was talking to you specifically on an open forum? Perhaps I was talking to those who aren't currently doing anything. Not everything is about you.

Plus you admitted yourself that they help, something doesn't have to solve all your problems to be helpful, if it even helped one person (I know not you, other people) then that would be worthwhile giving as advice to try in the first instance.

I think one side of this argument has been very well put, but not the other:

’why don’t you have a ruler’
’didn’t know you had to’
’so what will you do?’
’dunno’….with a couldn’t care less shrug

’you know you lose a mark if you draw freehand in your exam’
’it ain’t my exam’……staring defiantly

’could your borrow a pen from someone’
’JOHN’ (other side of the classroom) ‘Lend me a pen mate’.
Pen flies across the classroom, possible hitting someone and then isn’t caught, leading to pupil getting up to performatively retrieve it from the floor.

It is easy to think of the injustice to the ‘nice’ kid who genuinely cares but has just forgotten something one day. But the most common are the frequent offenders who genuinely don’t care and are actually enjoying wasting lesson time.

Which is why you need sanctions, but also why a wise teacher exercises discretion in using them.

Okay, if you say so.

Just a reminder that ND people aren't stupid, you know? You're very much coming across like you think they are.