To think there have to be some clearer reasons for the rise in school attendance problems?

[FloorWipes]

Inspired by this article https://unherd.com/2024/02/the-tragedy-of-britains-school-refusers/

How specifically has the pandemic affected things? Why is the environment so inhospitable to the neurodivergent?

OP to answer your questions. Covid both stopped socialisation of kids. Giving rise to the new chorus having issues. Which in turn raised a bug in SEN assessments. Plus some parents never their kids back to school, some couldn't handle going back.

See above as to why school is hostile to the ND. There are not enough professionals to assess, camhs is a two year wait. You get no help while you wait. It is a massive cist to LAs.

My eldest was a school refused pre covid. Attendance at 60%. Why? Undiagnosed SEN. We had a urgent referal to camhs that took 6 months wait and discharged at triage.

Camhs damages kids. There is no sweet spot in which they help. They are a chocolate teapot. I waited two years to get help gor my son with ASD strangling his little sister. He grew out of it before we got to the top of the list ( or he killed her).

There has been a rise in mental health issues in kids, possibly sparked by Lockdown, potentially exacerbated by too much time on screens (both of which have been proved to cause depression in some kids - not judging, mine has too much time gaming, as do most, it seems).

Add to that the squeezing of funds to education under Tory rule, which has resulted in losing a huge number of TAs, SEN provision, never mind an increasing number of children being taught solely by insufficiently trained level 2 TAs because some schools either cannot recruit teachers or cannot afford to pay them, and the picture is not at all bright!

ND kids are routinely failed in schools and many parents saw that their ND kids were happier at home during lockdown. Under those circumstances, I would definitely consider home schooling.

It's not one thing, it's many things.

Christ, some of the comments under that article.

BrambleyHedge
There will be others who only go to some lessons. Others whose attendance is low and others who spend most of their time in the pastoral base. As a parent you will not necessarily be aware of the number of children whose parents have reported their child has anxiety issues and who are struggling with attendance. I have definitely seen friendship groups where there are several students all presenting in similar ways who are trying to support each other but are potentially making each other's attendance worse as they all spend hours together on the pastoral base or truanting lessons .

Lots of kids dislike school especially if they are naturally anxious and/or neurodivergent. But before covid school was compulsory and that was that. A lot of kids didn't know refusing school was an option.

Then covid, no school for months. Starts looking optional. Plus anxiety rises. Plus many more parents wfh now so "you have to go to school because I have to go to work" doesn't have a much resonance. Plus schools are stretched to the limit in every way. Committment to addressing absence and massive increase in pupil MH issues means its just not possible to tackle it all effectively.

I think that covers the main reasons.

The lack of mental health support is a massive issue, without doubt, especially for ND kids. Until we came into the system I would never have believed how awful it is.

We went through a term of trying and failing to get DD into school, got turned down by CAMHS first time round, eventually got accepted after submissions from her counsellor and educational welfare, it took 14 months from then till she was seen by anyone. Two years on from there, she has been diagnosed with autism, anxiety, OCD and PTSD, and still all she gets from them is a medication review every two or three months, and that's really only for the OCD. No therapy, nothing, even after an overdose all we got was a single phonecall from the crisis team.

What chance have you got of getting a child back into education if you can't even get help for that level of mental health distress?

If you demonstrate to a whole generation of children that the things they need in order to have fun, develop socially and thrive - friends, activities, visits to relatives, holidays, celebrations etc - can just be taken away for months on end by a bunch of feckless idiots who give no thought to the horrendous impact, then of course you create a generation of anxious, unwell, poorly socialised people. The fact that this was all done under the guise of 'staying safe' (with the accompanying cries of 'granny killer' to anyone who dares question it) makes it all the more horrendous

Anyone who supported lockdowns have no business moaning about this totally predictable fallout. My generation completely and utterly let the next generation down. It's shameful and it will never be fully repaired.

It would be interesting if there were some stats on how many kids are absent with SEN/ suspected SEN, how many had MH issues, long term health issues and how many where parents refuse to engage with the school.

I suspect MH and SEN hugely outnumber the parents who just can’t be arsed.

It seems DfE are just looking to shame parents into forcing their kids into school with ridiculous adverts rather than admitting there’s an actual solvable problem with current education system.

The Head of CAMHS here deals solely with complaints so a consultant psychiatrist has no clinic time. It took seven months for dd's referral to be accepted. She was assigned a PMHW with no experience or knowledge of ASD, when she couldn't engage dd she wanted to discharge.I started a formal complaint through PALS as dd had had no worthwhile input and was desperately unwell. Head of CAMHS came here to discuss my complaint and as a result assigned a psychiatrist, psychologist and CPN. Dd had medication and was seen by one or the other at home fortnightly. This continued until dd started independent specialist. CAMHS support was useful in securing her new school. The independent specialist had their own psychiatrist, psychotherapist and counselling service so had support once CAMHS support tailed off.

I’m not sure where in my post I said people should frog March their kids. I was detailing what would have happened to me.

why are so many kids refusing to go to school these days? Very odd tbh.

education has never been something that has suited everyone and all types of learners. That would be impossible but there was never the same amount of people refusing to go.

in the nicest possible way, I’d be really concerned about my child’s further education/working life if they’re struggling with school. Life can be very difficult and stressful and you need the tools to be resilient and deal with it. When I hear about kids not making school it makes me think the rest of the life could be pretty tough unfortunately.

Actually you’re wrong.

As these children grow up they go to work/university where they have more control over their environment.

Also ASd burnout which often drives EBSD peaks in adolescence. Once they get over that, they usually go on to be fine.

The idea that forcing a child with severe anxiety into school to build resilience is rubbish. Just because a child struggles with school doesn’t mean they are going to struggle when they leave.

I hated school and was barely there, no one really cared about my attendance. Work is far easier and I rarely take any time off sick.

Of course parents with kids with EBSA are worried. It’s one of the most stressful things I’ve had to deal with. There’s very little help, waiting lists are huge and schools are told reducing absences are all that matters.

Where’s your evidence of this?

*justcallmebettty · Today 13:29

Agree with this. I can only imagine my (very loving and kind) parents’ reaction if I had refused to go to school.

safe to say I’d have been frog marched in*

This loving and kind parent forced hers in. She severely self harmed. What would you’re loving and kind parents have done then?

Mental health.

Schools don’t do enough to combat bullying, individual personalities. The ideology to just conform to a ‘norm’ in school. It doesn’t work. The education system is broken from rules and regulations.

My parents couldn’t afford poor attendance fines, so I was taken to school unwillingly. I was made to feel guilty, I was made to feel silly for having anxiety, for being anxious in school. Thinking about how I felt back then still gives me heart palpitations and the feeling of panic today.

The statistics on mental health between school setting students, and home educated students are staggering. Why are our children’s mental health not our absolute number one priority?

and I will pay every single fine they give me if I means I won’t find my child hanging from their bedroom ceiling one day.

in the nicest possible way, I’d be really concerned about my child’s further education/working life if they’re struggling with school. Life can be very difficult and stressful and you need the tools to be resilient and deal with it. When I hear about kids not making school it makes me think the rest of the life could be pretty tough unfortunately.

Unlikely because "real life" is very different compared with the artificial environment of a school. At university, students have a lot more freedom and control over their social and educational lives - even choices as to subjects, modules, etc, choices as to what clubs/societies/sports to engage with, choices about where to have lunch and who with, etc. At work, adults are surrounded by other adults, most of whom will be mature and will be just working! Schools are completely different, with all kinds of (often nonsensical) rules, disruption, noise, bullying, etc.

I was bullied horrendously at school throughout my teen years and left with no qualifications, despite being a A* pupil at primary. I hated everything about school, it was tolerable at first, but as the bullying got worse and worse, and teachers couldn't be arsed to do anything about it, I just got more and more withdrawn and disinterested, just went along and tried to zone out, then eventually truanting. I changed virtually overnight when I first got a job - surrounded by adults, a quieter environment, "freedom" within limits as to how I did my work, freedom to choose my own lunchtime, freedom not to have to use the awful school bus, freedom to drink or eat at my desk, freedom to wear what clothes I wanted (within the framework of "business wear"). It was a revelation and I absolutely loved it! Went on to self-teach O and A levels then self-teach my chartered accountancy qualification. Leaving school was the best thing I ever did - this "one size fits all" approach of huge schools can be absolutely toxic!

@justcallmebettty

''in the nicest possible way, I’d be really concerned about my child’s further education/working life if they’re struggling with school. Life can be very difficult and stressful and you need the tools to be resilient and deal with it. When I hear about kids not making school it makes me think the rest of the life could be pretty tough unfortunately''

You are not alone in thinking this. Every parent whose child has EBSA fears for their DCs future. And yes life can be tough. Not a lot we can do about it but deal with the cards you have been dealt and do everything you can do to get them through it. It's extremely tough.

Though I wouldn't necessarily say that the rest of their lives is going to be tough. It's school / education that is not right for many. Lots of people who struggle with school go onto thrive in the workplace. Thank goodness.

in the nicest possible way, I’d be really concerned about my child’s further education/working life if they’re struggling with school

What makes you think we aren't concerned?? I am extremely worried about my child's future. However, as PP said, you don't build resilience by just forcing an extremely anxious child into a difficult situation. The advice from Young Minds is not to force them in regardless

Most parents of children with EBSA have tried everything they can think of. Some have even had to give up work to support their DC. Personally I have paid for months of private counselling, signed my daughter up for an expensive hobby designed to build confidence, my DH has taken her on challenges like climbing a mountain to try to build self-esteem.

Worrying about this takes up most of my headspace, on top of trying to hold down a full-time teaching job and parent a younger child with her own issues. People with no experience of these situations should keep their opinions about how to deal with it to themselves.

in the nicest possible way, I’d be really concerned about my child’s further education/working life if they’re struggling with school. Life can be very difficult and stressful and you need the tools to be resilient and deal with it. When I hear about kids not making school it makes me think the rest of the life could be pretty tough unfortunately

Obviously I do worry about that, but DD2 is actually remarkably sensible, mature and self-aware for a 15 year old and pretty bright, but has ASD and combined ADHD and developed severe anxiety about school and EBSA. Just that for whatever reason she hasn't got on with school since Y7. We have suggested home schooling/online school but she doesn't want to try that as she actually likes the social aspects of school and has many good friends (when she can actually go). So we persist with counselling, and trying to get the magic combination of meds to enable her to minimise anxiety and be able to concentrate while she is there. And spending a lot of money in doing so as CAMHS was not an option.

She has achieved many things outside school like doing well in dance, gymnastics and athletics competitions and performing on stage- many things that would give other people severe anxiety.

I'm hoping like with a lot of kids in the same boat she can turn a corner once past compulsory school age and get on through college and a part time job. For many it really is just school which is the issue.

Even for someone like me who had good school attendance, I really disliked school during GCSE studies and was quite unhappy and depressed. I did ok in my results but not as well as I could have done. But I absolutely loved sixth form college and university. Many people who don't do well in school have done well after.

And just to show how perverse and opposite life can be within one household, her sister in Y10 at the time became depressed and self-harmed basically when she couldn't go to school in lockdown as she really needed the routine and social contact, and was one of only a handful of pupils allowed to attend in person when the school was otherwise closed in early 2021. It really helped her, thank goodness, and she has felt much better since.

@ShouldIHaveKnown You make a good point. Just received a letter saying the LA WILL fine me for my sons poor attendance. The same child with anxiety, ASD and an EHCP. I will pay all of the fines. It will mean less food for my son , but there will be no change in his attendance. And before I get called wishy washy, I have tried consequences, encouragement, talking, rewards shouting, family support, screen restrictions the lot. Anyone know how to get an EBSA child into school? I'm all ears.

@48wheaties this seems to be the approach now - hit repeatedly with fines so they can be seen to be doing something 😢. I’m so sorry you’re in this position x

couldnt agree more

@48wheaties the school should be calling an early/emergency Annual Review. I had to use a solicitor to force the LA but hopefully your LA/ school are better. Your child should be reassessed as if he can't attend then the EHCP isn't fit for purpose. The AR will give you right of appeal so think about what sort of environment your child would be able to attend. For dd she had EBSA at mainstream secondary but happily attended independent specialist. It may be that your son might need EOTAS where the LA funds a programme of education, therapies, activities that meets your child's needs. The Annual Review is the way to move forward either way.

Indeed. Mine had EBSA pre-covid - actually the respite of no longer having to go to school in covid was the long slow start of some semblance of recovery. It was a total autistic burnout in our case, precipitated by school expectations at A level. Kid is incredibly able and the most knowledgeable person I know, but doesn't think like the qualifications and education system expect, and simply couldn't cope with it.

Mine didn't go to uni. Is on highest pip and LCWRA benefits 4 years later and now goes out with carer once a week to a climbing wall. We are quite pleased because we are seeing clothes on probably 3 days a week now, rather than one of the giant hoodies. The previous 5 years have been spent, literally in bed 23+ hours a day.

I think the education system, unknowingly, quite destroyed my child. I don't know if they will ever work; at one point we were wondering about Oxbridge. Seems bizarre now.