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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there have to be some clearer reasons for the rise in school attendance problems?

257 replies

FloorWipes · 22/02/2024 07:52

Inspired by this article https://unherd.com/2024/02/the-tragedy-of-britains-school-refusers/

How specifically has the pandemic affected things? Why is the environment so inhospitable to the neurodivergent?

The plight of Britain's school-refusers

https://unherd.com/2024/02/the-tragedy-of-britains-school-refusers

OP posts:
WaitingforSpring24 · 22/02/2024 22:58

It would be really interesting to see if this is a problem elsewhere.

In Ireland for example, I don’t think there has been a similar rise in non attendance at school. (But I haven’t fact checked this!)

MrsKintner · 22/02/2024 23:05

TheWildEyeBoyfromafreecloud · 22/02/2024 22:22

@MrsKintner there are plenty of free courses that take very little time to gen up about sen

If I was a teacher I would do a few and learn more about my pupils needs.

Cool, but I'm not sure what problem you think that's solving?

So the class teacher working 50+ hours a week who is already on antidepressants, a performance plan and dreads waking up every morning uses some of her free time to do some online courses about SEN.
Is that going to help the child in her class who is waiting for a diagnosis but the waiting list is 3+ years?
Or the child who has a diagnosis but their EHCP application has been batted back again due to not enough evidence and the SENCO isn't being very helpful as honestly they know the school doesn't have the capacity to fulfil another EHCP anyway
Or the child that does have an EHCP, but isn't getting the 25 hours of 1:1 TA support they're legally entitled to because the school can't recruit anyone to do a skilled and stressful role for less money than working part time in Lidl.
Oh and SATS are coming up so the children are all expected in for before and after school revision sessions and there's no art, music or drama available until after May half term.

No wait, don't worry - the class teacher is on long term sick now so there's two new supply teachers who can do the free online courses and fix the education system.

Dogdilemma2000 · 22/02/2024 23:09

“How specifically has the pandemic affected things?”

Massive increase in general anxiety amongst my 9 year olds cohort if nothing else.

We told them to hide inside for 6 months. Why is anyone surprised when they are scared not to do that now?

Roseyposeypie · 22/02/2024 23:11

My (almost certainly) NT but sensitive, intelligent DS is struggling with secondary school. His attendance dropped to about 60% in year 7. We tried but there’s very little you can safely do to get your child into school when they’re in the midst of a panic attack and trying to harm themselves. For him it’s too big and too crowded. There are too many rules you can accidentally break, too many exams and too much pressure. We’ve made it to year 9 with support from CAMHS and a private therapist. He’s in a reasonable place right now but I’m already worried about what GCSEs will bring.

MotherofChaosandDestruction · 22/02/2024 23:12

I've just posted on the thread about getting a detention for forgetting a ruler. I was always forgetting things at school and never got a detention for it, I was engaged and loved school (this was 20 years ago). If I had been in school now and getting detention everyday or isolation for a small infraction I would have definitely been a school refuser as I suffered terribly with anxiety and depression.

Underfunding, COVID, poor mental health services, stressed parents, cost of living and getting ND diagnosis is taking 2+ years and then you have to fight for any support - it's a shit show out there and it's no wonder kids mental health is bad.

itsalwaysthesame · 22/02/2024 23:12

In my case it's because my daughter who's academically excellent but diagnosed ASD and quiet as a mouse cannot cope being in such a large, nosey environment with so many people, different classrooms, teachers, rules that are pointless but that she strictly adheres to, it's all so overwhelming for her. Secondary has broken her and she's only in year 7. Surprisingly she had exceptional attendance throughout covid as I was a key worker and she enjoyed going to school

6 months into secondary and she's borderline anorexic and self harming.

MotherofChaosandDestruction · 22/02/2024 23:17

Naptrappedmummy · 22/02/2024 19:12

I have massive sympathy for this but I’m racking my brains trying to think what the difference is between schools only 15 years ago or so, and schools now, that means this is a sudden and widespread problem.

I can only conclude it’s smartphones because I can’t think of anything else that is that different from the school environment in the early 2000s when I was there.

Personally I think it’s time for responsible parents to bring their children up tablet and phone free.

EDIT: sorry the last paragraph was NOT aimed at the poster I quoted, and I acknowledge this would mean time travelling for a lot of parents whose kids currently have EBSA

Edited

That's great but schools expect you to do your learning on a tablet nowadays from primary school.

Letsgetouttahere2023 · 22/02/2024 23:17

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 22/02/2024 08:08

The Ed pysc who reviewed my EBSA for an EHCP said that it broke the routine rather than it being ‘optional’

That they’d spent years getting up and going to school, and then stopped. And some couldn’t get back in the saddle again.

Its not casualness, it’s things being broken. He was rushed off his feet. Seeing 1000’s of kids. He probably knows more than you with your ‘casual’ comment.

My Ebsa was desperate to go to school. But couldn’t. She couldn’t cope with the stress. She’s ND. Conditions in schools are appalling. Students are just under so much pressure.

l was a secondary school teacher for 25 years. I hated seeing the stress of the kids.

Edited

Sorry, but you sound very flaky and woke. Agreed not all schools are great but theyre not exactly prison either.

Life is full of stress of one form of another. Part of the role of school is to prepare children to cope with this and be independent adults without some edpsych person giving them a duet day whenever the electric bill is due

itsalwaysthesame · 22/02/2024 23:18

Also I found out a few weeks ago that teachers put a projector up at the start of core subject lessons all the classes current percentages of completed homework, this is to motivate and encourage children to obtain 100% completed homework, but before the actual completion date. Can you imagine at work if your boss did this! - dreadful practice

Letsgetouttahere2023 · 22/02/2024 23:20

MotherofChaosandDestruction · 22/02/2024 23:17

That's great but schools expect you to do your learning on a tablet nowadays from primary school.

Absolutely not the case in any schools round here.

What exactly have you done to object to it? Parents can be involved in shaping school policy

MotherofChaosandDestruction · 22/02/2024 23:21

Letsgetouttahere2023 · 22/02/2024 23:20

Absolutely not the case in any schools round here.

What exactly have you done to object to it? Parents can be involved in shaping school policy

I have said my DC will not be doing homework during primary school.

TheWildEyeBoyfromafreecloud · 23/02/2024 07:13

@MrsKintner

Because knowing about your pupils and keeping learning should be mandatory.
Because learning a teeny weeny bit about that child with dyslexia is the line between preserving that child's self esteem so they don't eventually end up on antidepressants because their teacher labeled the stupid.
Because learning about the child with adhd means when they get out of their seat instead of loudly telling them to sit down and then they kick off you can pre negotiate boundaries with them so you know when they get up and just move for a few moments you can leave them to it because you know they will sit down?

2024name · 23/02/2024 07:58

I am quite an oldie, so I will write from my own, limited, experience of school absence. I also write as someone who never completed formal education and whose husband and children never completed formal education. We sort of 'did not make it through school'.

I went to secondary school in the early seventies. By the time I was nearly 15, I had developed a profound eating disorder and was sent to an adolescent unit. That, essentially, was the end of school for me. There was a little school at the unit, but I couldn't attend very often.

In the unit were quite a number of children with 'school phobia'. It was seen as a form of emotional disturbance. These children were different from the pupils who truanted. The truanting pupils would take days off here and there, but they were never permanently absent. I have no idea what the treatment for 'school phobia' was, only that it did involve medication (as everything did in those days).

My husband lost his father at 14, and only went back to school occasionally. I do not know if his absences were chased up, but I suspect there was some form of compassionate understanding if not compassionate leave. He received no outreach from the LA.

Therefore, nearly fifty years ago, there were pupils who were absent from school for reasons that were recognised as mental ill health. There would be, however, many pupils limping through the system, taking many days off or not being accounted for in those days.

My own children are both neurodivergent, and just did not make it through secondary school. My eldest has one to one support in every lesson and an EHCP, but still, he ended up in a CAMHS unit and never returned to school. My youngest received a small amount of home tuition from the LA (5 hours, and he hid away for half of that).

Therefore, I think nothing has fundamentally changed with respect to children not coping with school. I could say that the quite authoritarian and regimented school system (or the chaotic nightmare of poorer secondary schools) did not equip young people for the world outside, even half a century ago, and perhaps this is still the case. However, the majority of children do make it through school.

What may be different is the opportunities to catch up after school. My husband found an apprenticeship and eventually set up his own business. I found work, studied and entered a fulfilling career. My sons, however, are both in their early twenties and have not been able to take the first steps into a more independent life.

HeBeaverandSheBeaver · 23/02/2024 08:10

@2024name

Totally agree with this.

There were more opportunities out there back then for other paths. Now everything is so academic

I went into vet nursing with a few GCSEs. Now it's a degree course. This is crazy. Vet nurses are poorly paid and many don't practice into there 40s as it's so physical.

My autistic dd left sixth form from burn out. She now has a job part time helping a local lady with her business in an area of interest so she has been extremely lucky to get this opportunity. No-one else helped her get this form any services. It was all on her and me. I hope she will gain the confidence now to realise she can manage and do things.

She is so much happier now and I am very grateful as I know not every young person will be so lucky. But they absolutely should be able to find a way and a path to a fulfilling life.

The support systems in the uk are not broken they are not even there for low support ASD

There isn't Much there for high needs either.

It's so depressing.

shearwater2 · 23/02/2024 08:14

Thanks @2024name A lovely and thoughtful post. Good luck to your sons and I hope they find their way.

NotMeNoNo · 23/02/2024 08:15

It's a good point about alternative routes to continue education.

My DS is 18 now, (no GCSEs) has done a Level 1 college course and is applying for Level 2, the more relaxed and inclusive atmosphere of college has made a huge difference. But he had to pass 16 to be able to access these easily.

Making a couple of friends at college was also a huge support. I think loneliness is a big issue for EBSA children and I wish there could be some kind of peer support group locally, given how many there are all invisible to each other. But you could never organise anything during school time as it would be condoning the non attendance I guess.

AmazingLemonDrizzle · 23/02/2024 08:33

There's a really good website called

"Not fine in school"

It may have been linked before but explores some of these themes adn really hould be a first step for learning why some kids are "not fine in school"

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 23/02/2024 09:26

Letsgetouttahere2023 · 22/02/2024 23:17

Sorry, but you sound very flaky and woke. Agreed not all schools are great but theyre not exactly prison either.

Life is full of stress of one form of another. Part of the role of school is to prepare children to cope with this and be independent adults without some edpsych person giving them a duet day whenever the electric bill is due

‘Flakey and woke’ 😂😂😂😂

I was an outstanding teacher for 25 years and got the best results in the city. Kids travelled from mikes away to do the A level l set up. Every single year it was in the red hot section of the ALPS scores.

Id just had enough of the shit that is teaching nowadays. Honestly your post is just hilarious.

Oh, and in case you didn’t know, schools have to support diversity. You bet I’m ‘woke’ and proud.

Do fuck off.

DarkChocHolic · 23/02/2024 09:29

@NotMeNoNo
You make a very valid point about loneliness in EBSA kids.
My ND daughter is unable to go to school. She pushes herself there and really doesn't cope.

I beg her to drop out and do something else as she is almost 17.
However, she wants to stay in touch with her peer group at school.
Sad thing is she doesn't even have a solid bunch of friends. And yet she endures going in just to be normal 17 year old for a few hours.
It's heart breaking!

Xx

MrsKintner · 23/02/2024 09:57

TheWildEyeBoyfromafreecloud · 23/02/2024 07:13

@MrsKintner

Because knowing about your pupils and keeping learning should be mandatory.
Because learning a teeny weeny bit about that child with dyslexia is the line between preserving that child's self esteem so they don't eventually end up on antidepressants because their teacher labeled the stupid.
Because learning about the child with adhd means when they get out of their seat instead of loudly telling them to sit down and then they kick off you can pre negotiate boundaries with them so you know when they get up and just move for a few moments you can leave them to it because you know they will sit down?

While that's great, it's not solving any of the problems of curriculum, behaviour policy, staff shortage, lack of funding, academisation etc etc though is it?

lifeturnsonadime · 23/02/2024 10:26

It's just one of those things where people love to have opinions but unless you have gone through true EBSA you have no idea what it is like and the damage it causes to families.

On this thread we have professionals whose children have been impacted by EBSA. In my case my children were impacted before covid and covid actually helped my eldest have the confidence to reenter formal education, he no longer felt 'different' or like a failure because everyone had had disrupted learning.

For many families this is not just little jonny or mary not fancying school today. School for neurodiverse kids can be terrifying, it's noisy, the rules are either strictly followed (fine) or not (awful), many neurodiverse kids have additional SEN but if they are bright they can mask it. My youngest started reception as a june birthday able to read but she is profoundly dyslexic and dyspraxic and now has to have interventions that will add 50 % time her exams, when in primary school she wasn't allowed breaks because she couldn't finish her written work on time, so she was punished for her needs. She needed breaks more than other kids due to sensory processing issues but was denied them.

By the time she finished school she refused to eat, drink, slept in a tent on our living room floor wouldn't take her uniform off all week from monday to friday as that was overwhelming for her. Refused to do anything outside of school because all of her energy went in getting through the day. I'd drag her in sobbing but was told 'she's fine'. She was non -verbal at school. The fact was she was going through the motions and getting no form of education at all. All she was doing was surviving.

She was then known to CAMHS for eating disorders and autism and self harm, she was 9.

We had conversations about SEN school but she was considered 'too bright' and had no behavioural issues other than struggling to attend school.

My eldest had 3 years earlier had a breakdown for similar reasons, at 10 he was trying to get out of moving cars, throwing things at my head when i was driving. Running home from school because he couldn't cope with school. He had no other behavioural problems. None in school where he was just mute when he was there or sitting under the head teachers desk.

Fast forward 7 years from our first experiences of EBSA my eldest reentered 6th form after 6 years out of formal education and after 4 years of being unable to leave his bedroom at all. To the person who talks about electronics being an issue well they WERE his life line. All he could engage with was what he was accessing in a social way online , through gaming and in books. CAMHS told me NOT to remove them. Anyway he's now got 100% attendance in a selective 6th form and is going away to university in September. He understands his needs and the environment in 6th form and hopefully at university will work for him.

My youngest will do GCSEs next year, we're currently looking at post 16 options for her but she may have to stay at home if her needs (more significant than her brothers ) can't be met. She does however participate and volunteer in her chosen sport and competes for the county in her age group.

There are so many assumptions about families when children can't go to school. Most of them are along the lines of feckless families or soft/ woke parenting.

This couldn't be further from the truth. I've had to give up my professional career to have my children educated. It would have been SO much easier if they could have stayed in school.

shearwater2 · 23/02/2024 11:05

Another great post @lifeturnsonadime

It would really be so easy if they would just go to school!

shearwater2 · 23/02/2024 11:08

Letsgetouttahere2023 · 22/02/2024 23:17

Sorry, but you sound very flaky and woke. Agreed not all schools are great but theyre not exactly prison either.

Life is full of stress of one form of another. Part of the role of school is to prepare children to cope with this and be independent adults without some edpsych person giving them a duet day whenever the electric bill is due

Sorry, but you sound very insensitive and ignorant.

hiredandsqueak · 23/02/2024 11:18

Definitely @lifeturnsonadime seven years later we are still living with the trauma of EBSA. Dd fared better than many in so far as I trusted my instincts and refused to force her into school. I also ignored school and LA's ed psych's advice that I made home life uncomfortable for her so that she would give in and go to school. I fought the system to have her placed in a therapeutic setting who worked wonders at rebuilding her trust and I fought again when she left and she now has a comprehensive EOTAS package but she is undoubtedly damaged by her experiences as am I, I believe. It sickens me to read people dismissing the things dd and I went through as lazy child and woke and pandering parent when nothing could be further from the truth.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 23/02/2024 11:35

shearwater2 · 23/02/2024 11:08

Sorry, but you sound very insensitive and ignorant.

Yeah that what l thought. Really ignorant. But as it was attacking my post l found it quite amusing that anyone could have such a low level of understanding.

And to be accused of being woke😂 All public services are diversity inclusive. It’s like part of the job.

Woke😂 you bet!