To think gentle parenting is being taken too far?

[gpbs]

I've got DD 2yo and we meet up with mums with similar age kids from time to time, people I've known since pregnancy or since DD was very small. Examples are taken from some of those mums I know but also some mums I randomly encounter when out and about. Some of them take gentle parenting to the extreme I feel. A few examples:

1. Child A chasing Child B with a stick. Mum A says to Child A "sticks are for looking at, not for hitting" or "gentle hands please". Child A hits Child B with a stick "oh no we don't do that, do we? Hitting is mean!" (Wouldn't you grab the stick out of their hand before they hit?!)

1. Child A snatches the toy off Child B whilst B is holding it. Mum of A says "we don't snatch, do we? Can you give it back? Please give it back? Ok at least say sorry? No snatching please" as Child A walks off with the toy that she's just grabbed

1. One mum told me that she asks her son before brushing his teeth and if he says no, they don't brush it. Because body autonomy. He's 2.5.

1. Child throwing sand around, including at other children, whilst their mum calmly explains that it's best not to and how it would hurt other peoples eyes. Child not paying any attention, sand still being thrown, mum still talking at him. (Wouldn't you move them away from sand so it can't be thrown?)

All examples are things I've seen but all are about different children. Ages 1.5-3 in all.

And I know that's not what gentle parenting is MEANT to be about, but it's how the majority of parents who say they gentle parent actually parent.

Let's also not forget that many teachers and childcare workers are coming from the perspective that whatever controls the children's behaviour best is the correct way to do things, and this does not necessarily always equate to what is best for the children.

I was talking about the people linking naughty step to abandonment issues and suchlike, I would agree that impulse control is not great in toddlers.

Well, yes. That’s a good thing because the ultimate goal of my DCs teacher is to ensure they can read, write, spell, do algebra and suchlike. They can’t do their extremely valuable jobs without being able to exert some level of control.

And as an added bonus, the good behaviours DC learn in class about how to behave in groups also help them not be an obnoxious member of society.

When I needed to toilet train my children I took the advice of my sister who had worked for 20 years in a toddler room of a nursery rather than listening to my mum who had trained 2 children. I think dismissing nursery and teaching staff as not having valuable contributions and huge experiences to bring to the table is a shame and a waste.

To the people saying “why does it matter…” that only works if the child (note the singular!) is the entire centre of everything and if their needs (increasingly wants) trump everything else. That doesn’t work if there’s an exhausted, unsafe parent who is dealing with multiple wakings, or if the other child sharing the room can’t sleep. It doesn’t work in a primary classroom. It doesn’t work in a nursery full of toddlers either.

So feel free to say “what does it matter…” but you can’t expect to participate in activities and social structures where it is important to rub along together for everyone’s common benefit.

I agree entirely, and that attitude smacks of snobbery to me. Our nursery staff were absolute experts. I think it’s abhorrent for parents to leave potty training “until they’re ready” - it’s an environmental disaster, for one thing.

With respect, @aquarimum, I left potty training until my kids were ready - one was 2.5 and the other was 3 (and I used reusable nappies). Is that abhorrent?

I learned to read, write etc, did well academically, went to university, did well in my career and was fucking miserable at school because my emotional wellbeing was utterly neglected.

Yep same here. Great exam results, zero self-esteem. No-one gave a crap about the latter.

Were you miserable because teachers modified your behaviour so it wouldn’t negatively impact on other children? And are you projecting your negative experience?

Gentle parenting (no matter what it means) has coincided with record behavioural issues in school and increasing mental health struggles in children. Correlation is not causation, but it’s definitely worth a closer look.

No, I was a quiet and compliant child so no teacher ever bothered to think maybe I wasn't OK. I was so terrified of getting in trouble I barely spoke. But you go ahead with your own assumptions.

I don’t expect you to care that I find your choices abhorrent, I’m just a random on the internet! But I guess if you are doing all your own childcare and dealing with your own kid’s wee and poo, then it’s just that - random judgement. If, however, you’re relying on others to sort out toileting, then yes, I expect parents to potty train early, and I don’t think a child “showing signs” is any indicator of how easily a child will potty train (see: how early children used to be trained in the UK and still do in many cultures). It also gives young children autonomy over their bodily functions.

How is that in anyway relevant to what I said? Nursery staff are skilled at looking after groups of kids without anyone dying or themselves going mad. That is a good thing. They are not, however, clinical psychologists, neuroscientists or psychiatrists -Otherwise when you’re wanting your child assessed for asd, or they have a FND you would be talking them to a nursery nurse for diagnosis and treatment wouldn’t you.

😂. Have you never seen a group of little kids? At any one time 2 are tired and grumpy, three need the loo, 2 have fallen out over the sand pit and the rest are over excited because someone mentioned peppa pig!

If they are so easy to manage why is parenting difficult? Why do parents long for the end of the summer holidays? Why do teachers get stressed? Why do teachers receive training in classroom management?

To be fair why would they if you seemed absolutely fine? They’re teachers, not parents.

Gentle parenting (no matter what it means) has coincided with record behavioural issues in school and increasing mental health struggles in children. Correlation is not causation, but it’s definitely worth a closer look.

That is a nonsense- if you can’t define the thing you are talking about you can’t observe correlation- you don’t even know what data you are referring to never mind seeing patterns.

Well, quite, hence perhaps I have a point about maybe teachers and childcare workers not always knowing what is best for children, and maybe their actual parents knowing what is best for them and what works for their own child, hmm?

It seems to me that a lot of professionals' opinions on what is best for children simply revolves around what makes them easiest to control, or what makes their lives easier.

Gentle parenting (no matter what it means) has coincided with record behavioural issues in school and increasing mental health struggles in children. Correlation is not causation, but it’s definitely worth a closer look.

If it doesn’t matter what it means then how can it be causing (or even coinciding with) anything, though?

It’s been said (very sensibly) on this thread that “gentle parenting” as a term is as good as meaningless because everyone interprets it differently. If we are talking about a specific parenting technique causing issues then that’s one thing, but all it means to say that “gentle parenting (no matter what it means) has coincided with record behavioural issues” is that there has been an increase in people saying they practise gentle parenting and that this has coincided with an increase in behavioural issues. If we can’t agree what gentle parenting even means, how can we tell that it’s the actual practice that’s responsible and it’s not just a case of more people saying that’s what they do?

Having children at all is an environmental disaster- don’t kid yourself that potty training a few months earlier in any way mitigates the damage caused by your having them.

There’s ‘what it means’ in terms of whatever expert came up with the phrase and the accompanying method, then there’s ‘what it means’ in practical terms which is how it is broadly interpreted. It would probably be wise to assume people mean the latter when they discuss it, and nowadays it seems to mean permissive or overly indulgent parenting where children are not allowed to be criticised, told no or forbidden from doing anything.

Yes.

Its interesting that teachers are all knowing experts, until it’s pointed out that they are not all actually very helpful with some elements of children’s development- then suddenly they are only teachers, responsible only for teaching and it isn’t their responsibility to deal with other issues.

People can’t have it both ways.

Is this because the school neglected your emotional well being, or because your parents’ behaviour was such that you were compliant at any cost? Gentle parenting applies to the latter but not the former.

Quite 😀

and nowadays it seems to mean permissive or overly indulgent parenting where children are not allowed to be criticised, told no or forbidden from doing anything.

That still isn’t anything like precise enough to be useful data wise.

To be fair, times have changed a bit here, and teachers are increasingly expected to be social workers and psychologists these days: I do WAY more training on safeguarding, SEN and emotional wellbeing than I do on teaching. A child who “seemed fine” would have been ignored in my school days, but this kind of thing would get picked up on much more quickly now.

I was gentle parented myself. It was the former.