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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To ask what NHS frontline staff think of Breathtaking?

495 replies

CloudyYellow · 20/02/2024 23:06

I have watched all 3 episodes. I worked on the frontline during Covid. I found it very triggering and my fury is back.

OP posts:
Alexandra2001 · 25/02/2024 12:55

Janiie · 25/02/2024 11:41

'Janiie’s experiences don’t resonate with me'

My experiences? All I've said is it was the same everywhere. Ppe of course in short supply. It was globally. I've also said the NHS managed the surge by quadrupling critical care capacity. Not sure what is controversial about these comments?

It was a tough time yes, there was a pandemic. I just don't believe a palliative care doctor who is a leftie was best placed to be the source of the itv drama.

What on earth has her political views got to do with the series? if so, then your views should be disregarded too, being from the Liz Truss side of the debate.

The program clearly states that the drama is based on the book AND those of various NHS staff.

Do you think that medical staff, during the pandemic, stuck to their specific disciplines? or that Hospitals had a "all hands to the pump policy?

Palliative care specialists were heavily involved in managing CV patients.

You'll have to link to the German, Italian French equivalents of Michele Mone
German and other European health services have not had the issues the NHS has suffered during or since, we are unique in that regard.

Janiie · 25/02/2024 13:03

'What on earth has her political views got to do with the series?'

Impartiality. Someone with an agenda is not going to present a balanced story. I'd have thought that was obvious.

It was a horrible time, lots of things did go well though as I keep on saying. The provision of critical care for those who needed it and the organised redeployment of staff to support those in the red zone.

ThePure · 25/02/2024 13:06

The thing is Janie that all the frontline NHS staff commenting on this thread say that Rachel Clarkes experiences resonate with our own. No-one is coming on to say it is all a bit of an exaggeration and actually everything was fine.

All those experiences depicted in the drama: PPE being rationed and removed, 'green' zones that were nothing of the sort, pressure to discharge to care homes seeding spread, no staff fit to come into work, colleagues getting very ill in ITU, calling relatives on Zoom about their dying family member, wards full of very sick people deteriorating quickly and dying, not being able to give people the care they would usually have had and them dying as a result. Those were all experiences that I personally had during the pandemic too. I mean the violin playing seemed like poetic licence but the rest of it was pretty much as I was experienced it

The fact she is usually a palliative care Dr seems irrelevant to me. Loads of people got redeployed to Covid wards during the pandemic. I had friends who were community paediatricians and dermatologists working on Covid wards. We all went to medical school and did general medical rotations whatever our subsequent specialties and we had to pull on that knowledge. That was part of the 'coping' and a sign of how far off business as usual we were. Whatever Rachel Clarkes political views might be the story she has told is real.

Alexandra2001 · 25/02/2024 13:26

Janiie · 25/02/2024 13:03

'What on earth has her political views got to do with the series?'

Impartiality. Someone with an agenda is not going to present a balanced story. I'd have thought that was obvious.

It was a horrible time, lots of things did go well though as I keep on saying. The provision of critical care for those who needed it and the organised redeployment of staff to support those in the red zone.

But no one is "impartial" everyone has a vote, she votes Labour (i assume?) the balance will come from other nhs opinions and the program makers.

I ve just looked on her Wiki page and she opposed the Doctors contract, appeared on QT and was interviewed several times over the course of the pandemic, she also didn't clap for Captn Tom.

No mention of Momentum or the Socialist workers party.

You seem to be saying that only Conservative supporters can have their views publicly aired, as everyone else is a "leftie" and is obviously a liar.

Topsyturveymam · 25/02/2024 13:37

You’re talking to deaf ears I’m afraid with Janiie. She’s just popped up on this thread to try and defend the actions of Boris and his cronies. She wasn’t part of frontline services, just claims to have heard a few stories from people that were apparently!

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 25/02/2024 14:19

she also didn't clap for Captn Tom

I may have missed something but I do not recall any clapping for Captn Tom. People clapped for the NHS, which the government and media enthusiastically promoted because clapping is a hell of a lot easier than adequately funding it.

Autumntimeagain · 25/02/2024 14:21

peakygold · 21/02/2024 08:02

It's a dramatisation of a book an NHS doctor found time to write during the pandemic! I'm sure the series won't document how NHS staff were given free food, free takeaways and discounts, and propelled to the front of every supermarket and petrol queue, whatever their role in the organisation 🙄

Seriously ?

  1. You think everyone in the NHS actually received those things ? I know I didn't receive any free food or discounts, and neither did my colleagues.
  2. Even if every single person in the NHS DID get those things, would YOU be willing to sacrifice your safety/life, and the safety/lives of your family, your mental health and your marriage ? for 'free food' ???
  3. Every single person working in the NHS, regardless of their 'role' or place of work, was put at huge personal risk, every single shift/day of work. Porters , cleaners, admin staff, records staff, theatre staff, were all walking through entire NHS sites to do their jobs, walking through entire hospitals, passing hundreds of other staff, security on the entrance doors dealing with hundreds of distressed relatives trying to get to see loved ones etc. They ALL put their own lives at risk. Even the damn managers were having to put their lives at risk.

But you simply think that these people were somehow 'benefiting' from 'special treatment' and onto some kind of 'cushie' set up ffs ???

The real 'benefit' was that you could quickly shop and get home (or to your caravan/hotel room) and get some sleep before you had to do it all again. (Also was a benefit to the 'public', as they were less likely to be 'infected' by NHS staff after a bloody shift !)

Working 15-18 hour shifts, understaffed, overstretched, watching people die was what they were going through, NOT having a bloody 'jolly' ffs !

Janiie · 25/02/2024 14:22

'No-one is coming on to say it is all a bit of an exaggeration and actually everything was fine.'

No and nor have I! What I have said is it was a pandemic so yes it was of course tough but it was going on everywhere, the ppe shortages, the quadrupling of critical care services etc so for anyone to imply (and posters have, the drama cerainly does) that it was purely a problem specifically to England because of the Tories and Johnson is incorrect.

For the trillionth time it was global, same problems. Barring outliers like NZ obvs, I'm talking about comparable countries.

ThePure · 25/02/2024 14:27

Well I guess the independent enquiry is set up to investigate that so we shall see what they say...

I have some sympathy that it was an unprecedented situation and obviously mistakes can be made in good faith but there were dodgy dealings with our PPE procurement, our pandemic planning was poor and some of the decision making around lockdowns and 'eat out to help out' was questionable

DuncinToffee · 25/02/2024 14:37

Not to mention the so called protective ring around care homes claim from Hancock

Brandnewskytohangyourstarsupon · 25/02/2024 14:47

Hotsausage2 · 20/02/2024 23:42

I’m on the second episode and I wish I hadn’t started watching. I can’t stop crying and I feel so sick. The memories are just piling back in.
i worked in ITU and I remember the whole PPE issue. Being told to reuse gowns,seeing people die without family. Having a coup,e of days off and coming back and finding out 10 people had been taken off vents and died. Holding iPads over vented patients so that families could say goodbye.
Sorry- I’m so bloody angry and upset at the crappy government who allowed this mess. They had fucking time to prepare, and they didn’t bloody care.
The bit about knowing how many Drs had died but not the rest of the staff really upsets me. · 20/02/2024 23:42*

I’m on the second episode and I wish I hadn’t started watching. I can’t stop crying and I feel so sick. The memories are just piling back in.
i worked in ITU and I remember the whole PPE issue. Being told to reuse gowns,seeing people die without family. Having a coup,e of days off and coming back and finding out 10 people had been taken off vents and died. Holding iPads over vented patients so that families could say goodbye.
Sorry- I’m so bloody angry and upset at the crappy government who allowed this mess. They had fucking time to prepare, and they didn’t bloody care.
The bit about knowing how many Drs had died but not the rest of the staff really upsets me.

This, 100% this.

Same, exactly the same experience.
PTSD & flashbacks. I can’t talk about it because I get so so emotional.
I don’t think I will ever get over it.

Superfans · 25/02/2024 14:52

Ultimately the reaction to covid led to more mortality than the disease. Fear was deliberately inculcated in the general public and health professionals for unclear reasons. The conspiracies about medical staff are ridiculous but it’s true palliative care decisions and decisions not to escalate care were made in fear and worry about scarcity and this led to avoidable deaths. Acute respiratory disease the last thing you need is panic. See also early intubation. NHS bed occupancy was lower than currently and while some ITU’s were undoubtedly busy the idea the NHS was overwhelmed particularly in the first lockdown is clearly false. Rachel Clarke is politically motivated and invested in a certain narrative and the documentary should be seen in that light. NHS staff reactions to the documentary should also take into account this context.

SnakesAndArrows · 25/02/2024 15:03

Janiie · 25/02/2024 14:22

'No-one is coming on to say it is all a bit of an exaggeration and actually everything was fine.'

No and nor have I! What I have said is it was a pandemic so yes it was of course tough but it was going on everywhere, the ppe shortages, the quadrupling of critical care services etc so for anyone to imply (and posters have, the drama cerainly does) that it was purely a problem specifically to England because of the Tories and Johnson is incorrect.

For the trillionth time it was global, same problems. Barring outliers like NZ obvs, I'm talking about comparable countries.

Did they give contracts for fake PPE to their mates too?

ThePure · 25/02/2024 15:08

Anyway spoke to soon
Superfans has now come on to say that it WAS in fact all a bit of an exaggeration and actually everything was fine

'NHS staff reactions should also take this into account'
Eh? We don't know what we lived through and witnessed ourselves then??

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 25/02/2024 15:18

NHS bed occupancy was lower than currently

Bed occupancy is a poor measure to use unless you are also taking acuity into account.

Alexandra2001 · 25/02/2024 15:38

Janiie · 25/02/2024 14:22

'No-one is coming on to say it is all a bit of an exaggeration and actually everything was fine.'

No and nor have I! What I have said is it was a pandemic so yes it was of course tough but it was going on everywhere, the ppe shortages, the quadrupling of critical care services etc so for anyone to imply (and posters have, the drama cerainly does) that it was purely a problem specifically to England because of the Tories and Johnson is incorrect.

For the trillionth time it was global, same problems. Barring outliers like NZ obvs, I'm talking about comparable countries.

Look how Germany managed?

The UK was an outlier at the time with our v high death rates

@TarantinoIsAMisogynist Yes Johnson wanted everyone out at 6pm for Tom following his death.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 25/02/2024 15:41

Thankfully I missed that somehow! The clapping thing felt weird in general - the first one was sort of spontaeous and cathartic, but after that it became a sort of mandatory virtue signalling thing, with politicians being filmed doing it. Vomit inducing when you know how little they actually gave a shit.

Janiie · 25/02/2024 15:58

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 25/02/2024 15:41

Thankfully I missed that somehow! The clapping thing felt weird in general - the first one was sort of spontaeous and cathartic, but after that it became a sort of mandatory virtue signalling thing, with politicians being filmed doing it. Vomit inducing when you know how little they actually gave a shit.

The clapping thing was ridiculous but it was a more a community morale boost than actually applauding nhs staff. It allowed folk to legally chat in their front gardens to their neighbours which of course they could anyway as long as they SD.

'Rachel Clarke is politically motivated and invested in a certain narrative and the documentary should be seen in that light'

Exactly.

Alexandra2001 · 25/02/2024 16:07

Janiie · 25/02/2024 15:58

The clapping thing was ridiculous but it was a more a community morale boost than actually applauding nhs staff. It allowed folk to legally chat in their front gardens to their neighbours which of course they could anyway as long as they SD.

'Rachel Clarke is politically motivated and invested in a certain narrative and the documentary should be seen in that light'

Exactly.

Was it a documentary? that makes things even worse!!!

But as i said, the drama was made with input from many other NHS staff, the program makers and of course the ITV editorial team.

TBH could have gone a whole lot further, esp in regard to care homes.

DuncinToffee · 25/02/2024 16:18

Care homes was the topic of the film 'Help' with Jodie Comer

Topsyturveymam · 25/02/2024 17:03

ThePure · 25/02/2024 15:08

Anyway spoke to soon
Superfans has now come on to say that it WAS in fact all a bit of an exaggeration and actually everything was fine

'NHS staff reactions should also take this into account'
Eh? We don't know what we lived through and witnessed ourselves then??

Yeah, another ‘interesting’ post from someone who wasn’t there, no doubt! Great comment … ‘decisions not to escalate care were made in fear and worry about scarcity’
So not actual scarcity then - FFS!

Janiie · 25/02/2024 17:09

'TBH could have gone a whole lot further, esp in regard to care homes'

Yes I wish it had. I'd be interested to know why privately owned homes hadn't stockpiled ppe as some expected the NHS to have done just in case of a pandemic and also why, anyone discharged from hospital wasn't automatically barrier nursed as they do in norovirus or mrsa outbreaks? Not blaming the poorly paid staff but surely the managers and owners should've thought about strict infection protocol for hospital transfers in a deadly virus outbreak?

Alexandra2001 · 25/02/2024 17:59

Janiie · 25/02/2024 17:09

'TBH could have gone a whole lot further, esp in regard to care homes'

Yes I wish it had. I'd be interested to know why privately owned homes hadn't stockpiled ppe as some expected the NHS to have done just in case of a pandemic and also why, anyone discharged from hospital wasn't automatically barrier nursed as they do in norovirus or mrsa outbreaks? Not blaming the poorly paid staff but surely the managers and owners should've thought about strict infection protocol for hospital transfers in a deadly virus outbreak?

CH's tend to be just large houses, they simply do not have the staff or the space to isolate patients, though what restraint would be applicable and lawful in a CH to isolate a patient with dementia.... with or without CV.

Also, the advice given to CH's, long after the lock down began, was there was no issues with spread, i posted this at the time, it was all there on the PHE website.

You don't serious expect CH's to stockpile PPE and then throw it away (then replace) as it becomes out of date do you? they ve not got that sort of money.
We had PPE stocks but ran them down during austerity.

However, you do make the case for higher pay (why hasn't it been done?) and to put the sector under the NHS.... long over due.

Janiie · 25/02/2024 18:15

'You don't serious expect CH's to stockpile PPE and then throw it away (then replace) as it becomes out of date do you? they ve not got that sort of money'

Well exactly, but some folk seemed to think the NHS should've had warehouses full of it and chuck it out when out of date. Not remotely practical. Production and distribution were massively ramped up and swiftly too.

Care homes have many residents in their own rooms. They should've used strict infection control measures for hospital transfers. Even if phe suggested no issue with spread if I'd been a manager or owner I'd have erred on the side of caution.

ThePure · 25/02/2024 18:32

About 70-80% of care home residents have dementia but many are independently mobile not just lying in their beds. People with dementia do not understand or abide by barrier nursing restrictions. They wander about, they will not wear masks, they invade personal space and they do not wash their hands. They get aggressive if you try to force them. It is basically impossible to barrier nurse them without 1:1 staffing which care homes are not resourced for.

On the inpatient dementia ward at our hospital we quickly realised that the patients would not be effectively barrier nursed and we made a Red Zone corridor for new admissions, suspected cases and general hospital returners where at least they had some space to wander about. Most care homes would not have the space or the staffing resources to do that.

This worked out well for quite a few months until the delta variant came along and then as soon as we had one +ve case within days 100% of the staff and patients were infected and over half of the patients died. Yes they were old and had dementia and their life expectancy and quality of life wasn't great in any case. In a hard nosed pragmatic way you could say that locking down the country was not worth it to save them. You might be right. But they were (nearly) all loved by someone and it was hugely traumatic for us staff to try to look after so many people dying in a horrible way all at once whilst either sick yourself or impossibly short staffed. It was a horrible experience far far worse than anything else in my medical career. Obviously I am used to people dying, palliative care, breaking bad news but not in the volume and the circumstances that happened in the pandemic and it really hurts for people to suggest that my real lived experience is not true or exaggerated.

Even suggesting it was actually possible to prevent infections coming into care homes with the level of virus circulating in the community is pie in the sky. Care homes need staff who have to work closely with residents and the staff were getting infected by their kids at school when those were open and by their spouses working in acute hospitals or wherever. There is no PPE that's 100% effective especially as we had only paper masks not FFP3. At the time we were blamed and scapegoated by angry families for 'letting the virus in' but no-one was successful in keeping it out because it was impossible.

The only way to save care home residents was to bring down infection rates in the whole community by lock downs and later by vaccination. It can certainly be debated whether it was worth the undoubted societal harm from lockdowns but to not do that would have meant accepting even more people in care homes would die. You cannot have your cake and eat it which politicians appeared to be trying to do.