Roundabout collision - who is at fault? With diagram

[Notcheekyvimto]

Involved in a collision today at a roundabout.

Both lanes go straight on. The left lane leads to a left turn only shortly afterwards hence lots of people use the right lane to go straight, road markings are clear both lanes permit going straight.

Left hand exit is a car park for a local park marked in green ‘park’.

Red car travels in the right lane to go straight on, indicates left and starts to pull off.

Blue car comes from the park and intends to turn straight or right, into the path of red car.

Red car brakes but cannot stop in time and blue car is damaged on the drivers side, red car on the passengers corner side.

Who is at fault?

Around were we live you can hardly see the lines in the roads and or junctions etc
I agree with what you said and larger roundabout where one than one car could go around in in line need lines

I find it miles easier to drive where new lies have been painted in roads and I guess many others do as well

Was going to reply but this sums it up for me 100%, nothing red could do and blue completely at fault. Blue shouldn’t have pulled onto the roundabout if they weren’t going left (they didn’t have tight of way and even if they were turning left it would still have been a dangerous move imo), and also shouldn’t have been indicating to go left when they weren’t either to compound their initial mistake.

Blue sounds at fault on this.

Sorry if already asked but are they trying to deny fault?

Interestingly I feel the same way about you - you’re missing the point of what I’ve said entirely, as your latest post demonstrates. I have never suggested the blue car isn’t at fault - that’s the point of 50:50 - both the OP and the blue car are at fault because neither of them was able to avoid a collision, which both of them contributed to. The stopping distance is irrelevant, because the OP also had the means to steer away from her intended course and remain on the roundabout, having observed that the blue car was obstructing her path. That’s what safe driving is - avoiding accidents, even if that’s inconvenient or involves you proactively anticipating that other people do stupid things.

That doesn’t answer my question. As you were not there, you can’t actually answer it.

Blue car, how did they know that the red car wasn't intending to move into the left lane as they were pulling off?

Absolutely correct. You were fine to go straight over in the lane you were in, but, regardless, the blue car shouldn't have entered the roundabout as it wasn't clear. I hope you and your baby are ok xx

How do you know they were exiting left if you were on their right? Surely you wouldn’t have seen their LH indicators?

Blue clearly at fault but it'll go to 50:50.

the OP also had the means to steer away from her intended course and remain on the roundabout, having observed that the blue car was obstructing her path

How? Blue was heading into precisely the lane (continuing around the roundabout) that you are telling Red she should have steered into.

She didn't. She found out later. But they were in a left turn only lane.

I passed my driving test in 2008 so maybe later than some people on the thread but was always taught you don’t enter a roundabout at all unless it’s clear, regardless of which lane people are in.

This is completely wrong.

You enter a roundabout so you can filter into any oncoming traffic when it's safe to do so. There may be cars aproaching you, but if they are moving slowly, it's safe for you to enter the roundabout.

If you drove around Hyde Park Corner in London (4 lanes and no traffic lights at the exists back in the 1970s) you'd never ever move!

Blue car was at fault but my experience of insurers is they will always say you are partly to blame even if there was literally nothing else you could have done.

@Stayeduptoolateagain You can enter a roundabout if there is traffic on it- it depends on the speed of the car and its distance from you.

Clearly a lot of drivers here never drive on busy roads, if they can't enter a roundabout unless it's absolutely empty.

A roundabout is not a T-junction. You filter onto it, when it's safe.
You use your judgement as to the speed and distance of other cars.

Does the roundabout not maintain two lanes all around it? That’s certainly what’s shown in the original diagram and it isn’t clearly otherwise in the photo. A single lane is still likely to be wide enough to avoid a crash, though.

The insurance will see the blue car at fault as red car has right of way. I’ve been stung by this rule myself even though the car about to come onto the roundabout was going so fast, I didn’t even see it on the road about to enter the roundabout and by the time I sor it, it was too late :(

So much this.

One of the things I have learnt about roundabouts is that expecting anyone to do what they indicate is setting yourself up for a collision.

People enter them too fast, they go round them too fast. They drift around lanes. They indicate they are going to do something and then do differently. A lot of the time they don't indicate at all. To add to that often the lanes are poorly marked it's unclear what lane you are supposed to be in and the visibility on entry is often restricted. Sometimes this is deliberate design to try to slow people down.

In general IME making assumptions about what people are going to do on roundabouts is a bad idea. I'm willing to bet that just about every driver has pulled out in front of a car too early on a roundabout within a year or so of passing their test, or has observed someone pull out in front of them too early. It happens and you need to be aware of it and drive to anticipate it. It's just something you have to learn by experience.

Yeah, I take your point. I've driven thousands of miles over the last 25 years and I do drive on roundabouts as you describe, but I remember my driving instructor telling me that technically you should wait until it's clear. Still, the blue car is at fault 🙂

Technically, you'd never ever leave the approach to the roundabout! (If you waited an waited....)
Ive been driving for 50 years including busy cities. You can't wait for an empty roundabout. I was certainly never taught that. It does seem to be an issue that some drivers treat a roundabout as T-junction.

@Stayeduptoolateagain

I'm afraid your instructor was incorrect -possibly to make you super safe. HGV drivers are taught that roundabouts are filter systems - otherwise big vehicles could never enter them.

I had a very near miss in the exact same circumstances! Fortunately we both stopped in time and the bloke waved his hands in apology 😂

I dont get it though. Why do people struggle so much with roundabouts? Where did he think you were going to go when he was blocking your exit and crashing into you?!

Why did the red car indicate left if going straight in? Why did you?

*on. Not that there's any point as I've just seen how many posts and you've probably answered already.

I think some posters are being harsh!

You were clearly in the right, following the arrows on the road. The blue car (a) should not have entered the roundabout when you were on it, (b) should not have been indicating left, and (c) should have left enough space for you to leave the roundabout instead of assuming you were going right, ESPECIALLY since she didn't know the area!!

Reading some of these responses with interest. It’s common to have a roundabout on a two-lane road (eg a dual carriage way) where there are two lanes going straight on across the roundabout exiting in to two lanes, to keep the flow of traffic.

To those saying you shouldn’t go straight on in a right hand side lane - am I missing something? Surely you only mean when the road wasn’t already a two lane road?

ps 100% blue cars fault, I can’t see how you would be responsible at all for this. You had priority as you were on the roundabout, and assume you were inducting left (once you’d passed the park exit) to show you were coming off.