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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that 6000 per month is excessive for the government to take off my pay for tax?

840 replies

tootaxed · 23/03/2008 19:45

Surely there should be a maximum limit that each person has to pay as tax? Six grand per month in tax is just excessive imo. And that is before NI contributions etc. If the government set a maximum tax limit they would take more care over how they spent their central funds. And I wouldn't have to work so many hours away from my DCs only to have 72 bloody grand a year taken off my income to fund their mis-spending.

OP posts:
Twiglett · 23/03/2008 20:30

how can anyone believe that 'the more tax you pay the harder it is'

we do not have a progressive taxation system in the UK .. our highest rate is 40% and kicks in at a middle-income level .. which means that the more you earn, the more you net .. you net 60% (ignoring NI contributions) so £6000 for every £10,000 you earn .. even if you earn £1,000,000 you'd still keep 60%

many countries charge far higher rates as earnings increase .. and I for one think a higher rate should kick in at different levels, say for every 50K you move up an additional 10% tax bracket

nobody needs that much money

mrz · 23/03/2008 20:30

Just princessosyth called the poster Xenia on the 2nd page so I wondered

Scattybird · 23/03/2008 20:30

Actually Xenia would never be on such a stupid thread either.

Judy1234 · 23/03/2008 20:32

I have never posted as anyone else. I'd be discovered in an instant. I have however on mumsnet argued for an upper cap on tax and that once you pay £X a year you shoudl get a prize and an invitation to No. 10 and a certificate of thanks signed by Brown and then allowed to keep 100% of all you earn over the upper band whatever it is set at but instead what most people do when it gets too high is just move abroad and I would do that to avoid tax if it came to that. If you have any scope to make the gains capital gains that helps.

Perhaps if we pay a lot of tax and don't take up state school places we should be allowed to bring an orphan over from Zimbabwe and let them have "our" state school place.

In the US people are admired who earn a lot and people want to emulate them. In the Socialist Republic of the dour Gordon Brown the poor are jealous of the rich. They should spend more time in church and think about the sin of envy more.

ScoobyDoo · 23/03/2008 20:32

Would someone really make up a story that there husband & family were in a bad car accident & it had left there husband in a bad way?

If this is a joke i think its gone a tad to far now...

milkgoddess · 23/03/2008 20:33

twigg i totally agree

K999 · 23/03/2008 20:33

the countries that tend to have higher tax brackets are usually the countries that have far superior public services such as health care.

Judy1234 · 23/03/2008 20:33

And upper rate NI is 1% so for the highest marginal income you keep 59% now (not 60%). Another Labour stealth tax.

oregonianabroad · 23/03/2008 20:36

xenia.

...

I don't know where to begin.

cory · 23/03/2008 20:37

Nancy, it's not that she's not entitled to the NHS.

She is entitled, but on the same terms as the rest of us, i.e. she has to queue, and operations can be cancelled at short notice.
(The same thing happened to my dd a couple of weeks ago and she was in acute pain.)

Those of us who have moderate incomes have to accept this as a part of life, whether we like it or not. The suggestion was that as the OP clearly has a high income, she might be able to speed things up and make her life easier by using private care.

catsmother · 23/03/2008 20:41

Many of us, and/or our partner also work 100 hours a week, rarely see their children, in dull jobs, for which they work their bollocks off, for which they have studied hard blah di blah ...... and all for a wage considerably less than you must be on. In fact, for a gross wage, before tax, which is very much less than the tax bill you are moaning about.

These people don't have the option of working less hours because a drop in income would mean they wouldn't be able to live.

If you are able to turn down jobs purely on the basis that they are "dull" (and not because they don't pay a living wage) then you are indeed very fortunate and, if you are for real, your complaints are astonishingly selfish and tactless.

We all live in this society and all have tax obligations. These go up and down as our incomes do. But it would seem very probable that you have far more flexibility so far as choosing what you do than most. If not seeing your children bugs you that much, then cut your hours (if you are paying £72k p.a. tax then I'm sure that wouldn't be impossible) but no, that, apparently would be "dull". Perhaps spending time with your children isn't actually that important to you after all if "dullness" at work prevents you from making that change.

Anyone who defends their good fortune as being the result of them "working hard" really gets my back up because such a statement implies that those who aren't in such a fortunate position haven't worked hard .... which is, of course, a load of tosh. High earners may well work hard, but there will also invariably be other factors involved in their earning capability, such as having a supportive family when they were getting their qualifications, such as having the natural "luck" to be born with an aptitude for particularly well-paid professions, such as being in the right place at the right time, such as living in a location within commutable reach of well-paid work, such as having a great childcare support network (to enable work and/or travel, and/or long hours) ..... and 1001 other permutations which all add up to someone achieving financial success at work.

I would guess (not wanting to put words in Twig's mouth) that that is what she meant when she said you were fortunate, because, somehow, somewhere along the line, it has all come together for you, and people in a similar position to yourself. (The same can't be said for everyone - no matter how much they put in and how many sacrifices they've made). Okay - your life isn't exactly as you'd like it, but whose is .... and I'd hazard a guess that financial security (which you appear to have) would be pretty high, if not at the top, of most families' wish list, particularly in the current economic climate.

No-one likes taxes but they are a fact of life in a civilised society. Those lucky enough (see definition above) to earn a much higher than average wage should pay a higher rate of tax .... and remember that that 40% rate also applies to people earning much less than you, who are deemed, at least in the government's eyes, to be in a "fortunate" position as well - hence the higher demands upon their wage. Would you really insist you're not "fortunate" (in the salary respect) when compared to another 40% taxpayer earning just over the threshold (£39k-ish IIRC) ?? ...... who also works long hours etc etc etc.

Think yourself lucky you aren't living in the early 1970s when the top rate of income tax was 83% .........

Oh .... and whether or not you pay a 10% tithe to the church is irrelevant to the taxation issue. How you spend your disposable income is up to you and has no bearing upon your obligations to society as a whole. The church - or any other charitable organisation to whom an individual donates - then spends that money on specific projects. The tax we pay goes into central coffers which (in theory) benefits everyone in one way or another.

So .... the short answer is a resounding, YES, you are being very unreasonable to complain, and staggeringly insensitive.

wannaBe · 23/03/2008 20:41

I don't know about the op, but...

Higher rate tax payers do not pay proportionately the same as lower rate tax payers. Higher rate tax payers put signifficantly more into the system and are entitled to less.

IMO the tax rate should be the same across the board - I don't agree that the more you earn the more you should pay - people should proportionately pay the same.

but if the op is genuine, based on her £6000 a month tax she is earning about 15 k a month, and if she cannot live on the 9K that is left then she seriously needs to re-evaluate her lifestyle/spending.

Judy1234 · 23/03/2008 20:41

ore, on your knees may be, recanting the sin of envy?
There. I'll forgive you.

Perhaps we should get taken to the front of the queue if we pay higher rate tax on the basis if we don't get back to work on time the economy could lose a fortune but a cleaner being late back to work hardly has the same effect.

Am liking this. Good thread. Good fun.

quarkee · 23/03/2008 20:41

Really high earners can and do negotiate 'deals' with HMRC (the Inland Revenue as was) anyway in order to keep them in the country...large corporates can do the same, its all a deal really

Judy1234 · 23/03/2008 20:43

Not individuals, unless they are non domiciled, but I suggest the original poster should get some good tax advice.

sweetkitty · 23/03/2008 20:45

Only two things certain in life death and taxes!

I agree with whoever said one flat rate across the board.

wannaBe · 23/03/2008 20:46

no individuals can't negotiate like that.

Dependent on how you earn your money though there are ways around paying higher rate tax, ie if you're contracted rather than permanent there are loopholes to ensure you don't pay as much tax (although you still pay signifficantly), but someone who is working for an employer generally is PAYE and there's no way around that.

Bangandthedirtisgone · 23/03/2008 20:47

sorry for the hijack - Xenia, were you on GMTV the other day?

oregonianabroad · 23/03/2008 20:47

Ha, ha, Xenia.

Actually, I am refilling my glass from a bottle of cheap rose. (sigh. if only it was Moet, but I have been paying so much tax these days...)

You're right, this is good fun, but I am not going to go there with you. Just enjoy it up there, on that high horse. I am sure you feel entitled to the view.

MoreSpamThanGlam · 23/03/2008 20:48

I dont think its up to us to decide how much money anybody needs. If you've earnt it - good luck to you. Well done.

It just irks me that someone who earns that amount of money can complain about their child being in pain and waiting for an op.

I personally dont see why someone that choses to work their backsides off to earn lots of cash should be taxed gross amounts.

but I also think if you can afford private health care (or at least the insurance ffs!) then you should stand aside for those less fortunate.

Oh - can o bloody worms.....

Kewcumber · 23/03/2008 20:50

feel I need to contribute to what will surely become a classic thread.

Tootaxed - finances are not your problme but I do fear for your mental health that you thought it would be a good idea to come onto apublic forum and complain about this terrible iniquity. I suggest that you stop focussing on the tax deducted on your payslip and started focusing on your net pay figure. If you truly can't manage on £8,000 then a fwe life changing decision are in order - buy smaller house etc

I used to frequently make bonuses of more than my dad earned in a year. It was always a shock to see the amount of tax which got taken off, however I never felt it would be a particularly good ides to complain to him about it!

nancy75 · 23/03/2008 20:50

morespamthanglam, do you know how much some of these ops cost, my brother had op on his bowel some years ago, if he had paid for it it would have cost £176k, even on ops salary its unlikely she has that in the bank. and why should she stand aside and not use the nhs, she is paying to keep it going.

wannaBe · 23/03/2008 20:52

"but I also think if you can afford private health care (or at least the insurance ffs!) then you should stand aside for those less fortunate.". But should people pay more tax and forego the right to the NHS at the same time? I disagree with that.

I have health insurance because I don't want to have to wait for months for treatment on the nhs should I or my family ever need it, and because we can afford it, but I think that even though my dh is a higher rate tax payer we should have just as much right to treatment on the nhs as anyone else - in fact I might need surgery on my eye which will not be covered by my health insurance because of my VI - should I have to pay for that because I can afford to? even though my dh's tax contributions do also go towards the nhs?

Kewcumber · 23/03/2008 20:53

good tax advise these days would ususally be "either pay the tax or go live somewhere else" there are very very few legal efficent tax loopholes left for most ordinary people (vs non-doms/corporates with offshore HO's). TAx advisors who can promise you otehrwise are usually expensive and a waste of time.

K999 · 23/03/2008 20:53

its like every other bloody insurance that you pay for....you give them the premiums every month and when you wish to rely on them, they tell you that you are not covered!