to think that 6000 per month is excessive for the government to take off my pay for tax?

[tootaxed]

Surely there should be a maximum limit that each person has to pay as tax? Six grand per month in tax is just excessive imo. And that is before NI contributions etc. If the government set a maximum tax limit they would take more care over how they spent their central funds. And I wouldn't have to work so many hours away from my DCs only to have 72 bloody grand a year taken off my income to fund their mis-spending.

If decreases upper rates of tax increases the tax take then the poor benefit. That's more important surely than that things "look" fairer. If we say started with one tax rate of 33% everyone paid but only once they earned £10k a year that would be a lot fairer.

Anyway there are choices as we saw above - people can work less, go on to benefits, move to Bulgaria (10% tax) and where their work allows set up in business and principally take profits (where there are any profits) by way of sale of shares and some people have a choice to move to communist nations although I cannot think of many beyond Cuba and perhaps North Korea or live in communes in Scotland and Wales, be self sufficient etc.

dal21 - I am sympathetic to the OP's other problems. But that isn't what she was looking for sympathy about. She was asking for sympathy for paying 6k a month in tax. And try as I might, I can't actually find it in myself to feel sorry for anyone about the amount of tax they pay unless they're on a low wage.

Exactly Spice - Op only mentioned her other issues some way into the thread . So her 'other issues ' have somehow got lost on most if us because of her first seemingly selfish post .

Yes, I suppose we were to move the argument to ridiculous extremes we could have a revolution here - there's always that choice - though I don't think there's the political will for it .

I've just seen something on another thread which has made me smile... and wonder if tootaxed is a troll after all {grin]

riven,

whether the OP is a troll or not! I totally agree that Labour gets some things right! I want tax money to go on those things! But you didn't address the immense wastage that does go on. There is no actual need for that wastage.

My point was that it is harder for people to have confidence that their tax money is being well spent when it is so blatantly badly spend in some respects. That's what I meant.

I think career politicians have really harmed Labour's reputation, Blair and his shocking personal greed, all of the ministers who stay some where for five minutes, do seemingly nothing and then bugger off somewhere else. No commitment, few achievements. And education, some great talk but only now are they butting out of the schools' way and letting them teach! It's the control freakery I hate in Labour. And also that the whole political world was dominated by two ambitious men who barely spoke to each other. No wonder lots of things went wrong.

But the good stuff like teachers being paid more e.g. and countless other things - I applaud those good things.

No, I'm not a troll Red. Just felt i could finally admit to who my employer is as I now have an MN alias. And boy did it feel a relief after more than 2 years on MN!

Sorry I haven't been back to this thread. I have been reading it when I have had time, but the discussion has moved on so much it sort of felt like a hijack for me to post on it again.

To those who were asking about compensation for the accident, money from my parents' house etc. No - there is no money from either source. The accident happened on holiday in the US, and it was my DH's fault. (So no to thosewho commented - we did not use the NHS). Our insurance didn't cover all the medical bills, and my (retired) parents sold their house to try to keep me and my family afloat. We had to sell ours too, and it is only now, 6 years later, that the debts are starting to clear and financial stability is returning (though I still owe my parents almost £200,000). My parent's pension is meagre so I am the sole source of income for everyone. I feel a huge sense of responsibility and that is why I work so hard.

I haven't sought DLA as my parents would condemn me for taking "handouts" and I need to do what pleases them.

Ouch.

(The troll comment was because I thought that it might be a wind-up to put your neck on the line in two concurrent threads!)

I did ask if you'd used the NHS - I didn't actually assume you did. In spite of all its failings it's one of the main reasons I fully support the taxation system in this country. I'm sorry for your circumstances, though I'm afraid we still don't see eye to eye re the tax cap issue.

Truly hope your situation improves.

Oh tootaxed, I am sorry. Sounds awful. Hope your situation improves.

And I do realise it was insensitive of me to put the amount of tax in my title heading. So sorry to those I offended.

I am going to leave this thread now and revert to my normal MN name and usual happy MN posting persona (my favourite escapism from my life).

I'm happy to pay tax - doing my bit. I assume that I get paid the market rate for the job and if taxes were lower, my employer would probably pay me less, so I personally would be no better off.

Your wages reflect the market rate for your job. They are based on what your value is, which partly takes into account the fact that a chunk of your income goes on tax.

No point whingeing about it. It's a shame you feel trapped in your job and by money. Is there really no way you can change your life so that you don't feel you have to earn this money? What would your parents do if you were unable to do your job for health reasons for example?

May be DLA is too small a sum to be worth claiming anyway. I don't know.

I suppose six of us alone too (and in effect an ex husband who virtually never sees the children and certainly never pays anything) and I pay a lot of tax. Our debts are over £1m. Anyway obviously those of us in work we're all better off (except in terms of free time) than people on benefits.

Still think the 10% tax in Bulgaria is appealing. I was just reading about that writer - Darymple? who lives with his family in a rented house in India and can spend up to 90 days a year in the UK without paying tax here.

LOL at Swedes finding only two properties and at only £50 under 300k

Xenia, it's a rather disingenuous comment you made here:

"By Xenia on Sat 29-Mar-08 17:11:26
I don't see what's wrong with saying just as well some people are prepared to work very hard to generate tax to pay for the disabled and those on benefits"

Because the fact is, you dont work very hard to generate tax (to pay for the disabled and those on benefits). You work very hard to suit yourself and line your own pockets. I highly doubt there is a single person on this planet that chooses to work the hours they do, and the vocation they do in order that they pay extra high amounts of tax to suppor the country.

What a totally ridiculous thing to say!

Yes Xenia, I read about that writer too - think it was in the Times, wasn't it? It did not strike me that he was a tax exile - more that he was an economic migrant really - just trying to make the pennies go further by living in a low-cost economy.

hi tootaxed. It sounds like you are under a lot of pressure, financial included. I admire and respect you for working hard to pay off your parents and at the expense of your seeing your children - to me you are being responsible and working for a better future for your family through self-sacrifice.

A lot of fathers do that, sole breadwinner pressures and all, and deserve the credit for putting others first above the arguably easier option of stepping off the treadmill and putting the whole family on the breadline.

I hope things get better for you soon. Happy mnetting. I hope you find better support on this site under your usual name.

Shocked at your aunt's comments riven. I really do not understand people who get so bothered by what other people receive in benefits. To me it seems the biggest waste of time and effort - resulting in a meanminded way of thinking, and, as you've pointed out, in many cases they are just wrong and unaware of the true situation.

FF, not of course I wouldn't. Most people on benefits are not disabled to it's a side issue anyway to the debate on the thread. There are some general issues we need to address on that - there are definitely some freeloaders claiming depression stops them working on incapacity benefit who are really trying it on. There are broader issues such as the result of women having children when they are older and some communities where first cousin marriage is very common when they are 5% of the population but have 25% of the children with disabilities so an education process might be useful for some people.

Working hard to support a family (and ex-spouse) alone (which I do and certainly don't expect strangers to praise me for, don't worry, I'm hugely privileged compared with most people) is hard. If you have a housewife or househusband at home that's a bit easier but plenty of men (and a few women) are sole breadwinner for 5, 6, 7 or more dependents. My grandfather supported two unmarried sisters plus his wife and 3 children for the sisters entire lives. They had had a job. He also paid to send 3 brothers who were alcoholics to Canada in about 1910 I think. So mothers and fathers being sole providers for their large families and relatives is nothing new.

There are interesting issues about the extent to which we should all be personally responsible for the provision of care and cost of care of our under 5s and elderly relatives and disabled relatives. Some people view nations as ours as cruel in that we expect the state to care for the old not hte family. It is by no means the case that only acceptable form of provision is state provision morally, is it? On the other hand we might want free childcare for under 5s regardless of parental income and similarly free care for the elderly whatever their income too.

I was reading an article in yesterday's papers by headmaster of a private school who had just been on holiday where they met a rich female QC (with a rich husband). they had got their 3 children into a very good state grammar. His suggestion was people like that should be paying say £1000 a year or more for a state school place. It's this issue of whether we have universal provision of benefits or charging. What we don't want is the nation divided so that those who can afford a holiday cottage in Scotland and Wales get more more free healthcare than those who slum it in the South East and paid most of the tax which pays for things provided free in Scotland and Wales that the rest of us have to pay for.